Uwe & the boys in TBMW
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Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW ///M Power
Forum Discription: Ask your BMW M Power Technical Questions here (M1, M2 hybrids, M3, M5 & M6)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=32654
Printed Date: 28-April-2024 at 16:19
Topic: Uwe & the boys in TBMW
Posted By: piers66
Subject: Uwe & the boys in TBMW
Date Posted: 09-August-2006 at 13:40
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Good to see such coverage of E30 M3s in the mag - still feel there is room for regular E30 M3 tuning advice somewhere. I know we cover stuff on engines, suspensions etc on various forums on an ad hoc basis, but how about someone getting a guide together. I, for one, would be willing to help, but unfortunately engine building isn't my strong point...or suspension ..or... Thoughts? ------------- piers66 |
Replies:
Posted By: US M3
Date Posted: 10-August-2006 at 01:42
Is that in this months, I missed it over the last few months ------------- 1990 E30 M3 (US MODEL) 2008 BMW 520D M SPORT |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 10-August-2006 at 10:28
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Yep was a fund day out. Shame everybody went at 12!
I found it a little bit cheaky ( to say the least) from a red M3 to claim only 250 bhp well knowing the car was putting down 300 on a other Dyno before..... Also wondering if a trip up to Powerstation is adding bhp while'u'drive? (read the EWOK article and compare power figures from this board and the Powerstation run) uups..... ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: stevesingo
Date Posted: 10-August-2006 at 10:46
Yeah, Powerstations correction factors are a bit optimistic. EWOK 154BHP at wheels (uncorrected) makes 236bhp at the fly (uncorrcted) 82BHP LOSS. My arse. Steve |
UweM3 wrote:Posted By: lyndonbuck
Date Posted: 10-August-2006 at 11:48
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Don't I recognise some of those faces in the mag from Crimewatch? And Des
Thrash is the best name I have ever heard! |
Posted By: M3Nally
Date Posted: 10-August-2006 at 12:07
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Always thought the chap Major Dick Hazard had a name to enjoy, but thats another thread......... ------------- E30 M3 Macao blue metallic Evolution 2 E39 530d Sport Auto, Aegean blue Edition, Sat Nav, TV, comms pack etc. E39 540i Auto, Sat Nav, TV, leather, luxo barge |
Posted By: piers66
Date Posted: 10-August-2006 at 12:29
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As has been discussed ad nauseum it's difficult to compare across dynos on different days - but I'll still post what my lastest figure is when I get it tomorrow. What I thought interesting is that there is a pretty big jump between standard cars & those "lightly modded". ------------- piers66 |
Posted By: SHEPSM3
Date Posted: 13-August-2006 at 15:39
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Steve, I agree. That car isn't even making 200BHP in my opinion. Assuming that all wheel bearings, rear tracking, brakes, tyres etc, etc are in good condition and correct it will only be loosing 40-45BHP through the transmission (as both my SE and Evo2 does and my Europameister did 6 years ago) I havn't bothered to buy the mag, but was Ewok put in the same feature as this dyno day? ------------- [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/ShepsM3/New-1a1.jpg">[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/ShepsM3/New-1b1.jpg"> |
Posted By: 215m3
Date Posted: 13-August-2006 at 17:15
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[QUOTE=UweM3] Yep was a fund day out. Shame everybody went at 12!
I found it a little bit cheaky ( to say the least) from a red M3 to claim only 250 bhp well knowing the car was putting down 300 on a other Dyno before..... QUOTE] Uwe me and Kev met this car and owner at Croft. He claimed 300 bhp and Kevs could not possibly get 300 with a distributor. Well kev's car overtook it and out dragged it on the back straight. His excuse was kev had larger cams, so what if he did, but the claim was Kev did not have 300 BHP. ------------- Toby http://www.bmminiparts.com - New Genuine BMW & Mini OEM parts - www.bmminiparts.com 1987 E30 M3 with turbo being added |
Posted By: Nick
Date Posted: 13-August-2006 at 18:36
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Dessies car..
I have not driven it myself but I do know the engine builder very well. It has all the right bits added to a very strong engine and has been assembled correctly. 300 is very optimistic though.. watching the car in action at Cadwell from behind in a well driven stock 2.3 it could not pull away. I also noticed everyone on his tail at Croft complaining that the car was fast on the straights but holding them up through the twisties.. I would say that the car makes a good solid useable 265 or thereabouts. Nick ------------- |
Posted By: stevesingo
Date Posted: 14-August-2006 at 13:22
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I've seen his dyno polt from Powerstation and it made 220 odd at the wheels. (Can't check 'cause British Airways has my laptop anmongst other stuff that they lost for me on friday) But the Flywheel figure was something like 316BHP! Good old Powerstaion corrections.
Steve |
Posted By: piers66
Date Posted: 14-August-2006 at 15:23
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Just to add a little fuel to the fire, here are my latest figures: At 7800 rpm 192 bhp at wheels, 237 bhp "flywheel" At 5500 rpm 175lbft torque Weirdly (as it is meant to have 284/276 combo) still pulling strong at 8k... Done at Chipwizards, Rochdale. ------------- piers66 |
Posted By: SHEPSM3
Date Posted: 14-August-2006 at 18:39
Piers66, that seems pretty much spot on  ------------- [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/ShepsM3/New-1a1.jpg">[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/ShepsM3/New-1b1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Dannyboy
Date Posted: 14-August-2006 at 19:17
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Did I read the engine tuning section right because it looks like they are
not happy with there alpha N and are going to ditch it in favour of a stand alone ECU? ------------- 1992 clio 1.8 16V Good 1998 Subaru Impreza Turbo Terzo Great 1987 M3 Diamond Black Awesome (Now awesomer with Billys & Eibach) |
Posted By: SHEPSM3
Date Posted: 14-August-2006 at 19:33
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Thats stupid, there are lots of guys here that have had the AN fitted and are totally happy with it, I suspect Power Station has talked them into thier Motec? I wouldn't bother with that either and go for the Dastek Uni-Q if I was them. But then - They seem to know better, so who am I to say? ------------- [IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/ShepsM3/New-1a1.jpg">[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/ShepsM3/New-1b1.jpg"> |
Posted By: 215DMX
Date Posted: 15-August-2006 at 14:42
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Also noticed the 'loss' figure was like 60bhp on the before and 80 odd bhp
on the after. So its easy to pick up 20hp in that case. If i remember right the difference between wheel figures was like 6bhp ! EDIT: also I belive the Catcams 283 is pretty much the same as a BMW 264 or 272 (can't remember which) if measured in the same way. |
Posted By: stevesingo
Date Posted: 15-August-2006 at 15:43
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Dave, the wheel figures are not corrected. It is only once the losses have been added that the correction is done.
Thinking about it... How can you add a correction factor to a transmission loss where that loss is not affected by the tempreture/barometric conditions? I'll have to lok in to that... Steve |
Posted By: Jonners
Date Posted: 29-August-2006 at 13:55
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One thing worth mentioning before this thread dies
Whether or not a car can pull away from another on a track mostly depends on how well the cars are being driven just because a powerful car doesn't pull away doesn't mean it hasn't got the claimed power speed through the turns has a very big effect on speed on the straights you can never assume that 2 drivers have equal ability |
Posted By: Matt T
Date Posted: 29-August-2006 at 19:51
I bought my car from him and had a look at his...(excuse the rubbish phone pics)   He claimed 300bhp to me, he certainly hasnt cut short spending money on it. Although i have to say, i saw it at Brands a few months ago and it was getting seriously hassled by most the M3's, including Martin's standard 195. -------------  |
Posted By: Jonners
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 10:38
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it was getting hassled....
as i said it all depends on the driver |
Posted By: trackM3
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 12:27
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I was at that track day, and yes came past him a few times per outing ! he didn't know the indy circuit in his defence but the car in my eyes is all out power and no handling, i don't think the car is at all well set up and could in the future be a very quick car in the right hands ? only my opinion Martin ------------- Oops i went and got an E36 ! |
Posted By: piers66
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 13:48
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Well it's certain that mine with the GAZ suspension & dunlop trackday tyres can carry a lot more speed round corners than before, but good track knowledge (especially when long like the Ring) can count even more! Martin - very pleased with my set-up now. ------------- piers66 |
Posted By: 215m3
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 14:28
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I was told at Croft buy the guy who built the engine and car that he built the suspension. He said he runs it on the bump stops. That's how there's no compression in the travel. He said he had made 6 sets for his pals. That's why it did not handle well at all. ------------- Toby http://www.bmminiparts.com - New Genuine BMW & Mini OEM parts - www.bmminiparts.com 1987 E30 M3 with turbo being added |
Posted By: trackM3
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 16:49
Toby, i just hope his engine building is better advised than his suspension setup's ? Piers i'm glad your happy with the Gaz setup, are you at Silverstone ? ------------- Oops i went and got an E36 ! |
Posted By: piers66
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 17:34
 ------------- piers66 |
Posted By: piers66
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 17:41
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Dyno plot posted at last. Comparing this to results from TBMW - which of course doesn't list power at wheels - my power seems to be peaking 400rpm higher - certainly car feels like it wants to run "past" 7800 limiter. Martin - not sure about Silverstone - not much vacation left. I'm doing Cadwell on 11th if anyone interested in seeing what a 3.91 ratio feels like with above engine power. ------------- piers66 |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 18:38
That's some very good numbers Piers! Congrats. ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 23:03
He also said to me that R-Compound tyres are no good..... ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: 215m3
Date Posted: 30-August-2006 at 23:05
only no good compared to slicks, but better than road tyres. some folk just talk cobblers! ------------- Toby http://www.bmminiparts.com - New Genuine BMW & Mini OEM parts - www.bmminiparts.com 1987 E30 M3 with turbo being added |
Posted By: Matt T
Date Posted: 31-August-2006 at 00:52
Theres not many tracks with only 7/8 corners though is there, surely after a few times round he would have it pretty much sussed. ------------- |
Posted By: E30Matt
Date Posted: 31-August-2006 at 08:53
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Matt T no offence but how many trackdays have you actually driven on, i think you'll find it takes more than a few laps to learn a circuit. I know people who have been racing and doing trackdays for years and are still learning new lines at circuits. Lets not forget that Martin was on slik's and Gaz suspension on the day, the other car in question was on road tyres and not what you'd call track suspension. Just remember chaps, POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL!  ------------- Three cylinders is the new four!!! |
Posted By: 215m3
Date Posted: 31-August-2006 at 09:54
The car in question has custom built suspension by the person who built the engine. It also has 6 pot tarox brakes. One can learn a new circuit in a day, granted not as well as over serval visits, but a full open pit lane for a day, you would know the circuit by the end of the day, but not necessraly the correct lines. You would know which bend was approaching by then. There's also a diffrence between learning what bend is coming next and what line to take. Getting the lines right at slow speed is easy enough, but putting it all together with speed, gear changes, braking at the right point, releasing the clutch at the right time as no to lighten the back end, turning in at the right time with the correct speed. Throttle position during the corner and then knowing when full power can be applied as early as poss. Once this has been achieved then on to setting the car up for the next corner. If any of the above is wrong then this may effect the approach for the next corner. It just seems the owner does not have the natural tallent of some of the other drivers, just an observation. Regarless of what power a car has. If set up with the same chassis setting then there will be a maximum limit of aheasion and once reached no more power can be applied, so if a 200 and 300 hp can both reach this point the only time power will help is on the exit. This car also raced another 300 hp car, which had slicks. the car with slicks was behind. Once out of the chicane at croft it out dragged the car in question on the long straight. It may have been able to carry more speed through the chicane, but was behind, so the other car would be able to get on full throttle sooner. ------------- Toby http://www.bmminiparts.com - New Genuine BMW & Mini OEM parts - www.bmminiparts.com 1987 E30 M3 with turbo being added |
Posted By: E30Matt
Date Posted: 31-August-2006 at 10:27
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215m3 i dont doubt the car in question has the power he is quoting and i know it has 6 pots and suspension but this dosen't mean that the suspension is set up correctly does it? Also just because it has 6 pot front brakes does this mean that the brake bias is set correctly? I agree with what you said about driver tallent but boes this mean i should be doing touring cars, i was lapping Brian Long (Ex touring car driver?) in this car at Brands and i've only got 150 BHP and 3 cylinders? I'm not running anyone down here or trying to upset people, just trying to get my views across. ------------- Three cylinders is the new four!!! |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 31-August-2006 at 18:15
6 pots are a waste of money when used with road tyres IMHO. ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |