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paulo 
Newbie 
Joined: 13-November-2005 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
 Posted: 13-November-2005 at 16:42 |
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Battery still ok and being used, engine turned over but no spark at plugs and both fuel pumps were energised
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I 
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 13-November-2005 at 18:06 |
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the battery powers the alarm for about 2 weeks before it needs charging, how could it be the battery? |
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II 
Available from all good newsagents! Joined: 15-August-2005 Location: The Mansfield Massive Status: Offline Points: 632 |
Posted: 14-November-2005 at 10:27 |
So, you jacked the car up, put in on axle stands, gone underneath and looked inside the bellhousing with a torch?? This lug isn't much bigger than a little fingernail. It won't stand up and shout at you. So you've got power at the coil but not at the plugs. Have you checked for a spark at the coil lead yet? I mean pulled it out of the distributor cap, stuck an old spark plug in the end and cranked it over. Don't dismiss the battery idea - these need a really powerful battery to spin the engine over AND provide a spark. You've also checked the rotor arm I take it? Not just physically looked at it but removed and checked for a hairline crack and checked it for resistance with an ohmeter? The resistance should be 800 - 1200 ohms, no more no less. |
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 14-November-2005 at 15:36 |
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No spark from king lead, with plug attatched to it. Will investigate the rotor arm when I have the time |
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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Brucey
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 07-March-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 744 |
Posted: 15-November-2005 at 14:30 |
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if there is no spark from the king lead then the rotor arm won't be stopping the engine from running. Have you made absolutely sure that some crappy old alarm/immobiliser isn't stopping your car from running? If you have one fitted, I would bet money there is a foul rats nest of wiring under the dash, behind the glove box is a normal spot, and fouling the ignition circuit is common practice. cheers
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~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~ |
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Samuel m635
Groupie
Joined: 15-November-2005 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 40 |
Posted: 15-November-2005 at 15:30 |
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It might be a little coincidental, but when I recently bought my M6 (1985 model), it cut out on my way home. I did all the normal stuff, checked the fuel, leads and so on. Eventually called the AA. The AA man found that there was no low tension power to the coil. No volts in = no volts out. We were both thinking the worst until he took a long piece of wire and bared both ends. He then pused one end of the wire into a fuse socket (and secured it with a fuse by pushing it back in) and then connected the other end to the positive feed to the coil. In this way, he was certain that the coil was getting the full 12volts. Engine started straight away and ran for days until my local garage traced the fault to corrosion under the fuse box that was causing the juice flowing to the coil to be reduced due to higher resistance. This could also be a source of ignition, but not the sort that you're after! After isolating the damaged wire and replacing |
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m635
e46 320 tourer |
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 15-November-2005 at 16:35 |
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But I am getting power to the coil, but nothing out of it!!!! Apparently something (ECU I have been told) is not firing the coil. But I havnt got the time or the expertise to do this at the moment, but I have appanged an auto electrician for a couple of weeks time
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 04-December-2005 at 14:13 |
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I had a mechanic look at the car today (thanks again Ivan for your help), and it has prompted me to report back with a few questions... The 2 reference point sensors and the flywheel bits that can fall off seem (unfortunately) to be the root of the problem. The mechanic has tested the sensors for resistance and voltages. The resistances are fine (The sensors are new anyway). The voltages: these were recorded when the car is turned over... One gives about 4V, and the other gives nothing. Now, this leaded us to suspect that one of the teeth that sends from the flywheel to the sensor, and subsequently triggers the ECU to fire the coil is missing. I wanted to know if there are 1 or 2 of these 'flywheel teeth', as I can definately see one of them. I also wanted to know exactly what work needs to be done, should one of them be missing. Do I need a new flywheel? How much should I be paying for the job to be done? Has anyone else had this job done before? If I did need a new flywheel, where is the best place to get one (Automatic car)? Finally, are there any other jobs one should do (like any gaskets etc) when the gearbox is out, as this is the best time to do this.
-Ben |
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
Available from all good newsagents! Joined: 15-August-2005 Location: The Mansfield Massive Status: Offline Points: 632 |
Posted: 04-December-2005 at 16:36 |
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Just one spikey metal bit, that's all.
So that's not the problem - but who repalced the sensors? Are they the right way round? You'll see "B: and "D" cast into the bellhousingby the sensors - "B" is the reference sensor that operates off that raised spiky metal bit and it plugs into the grey plug on the inlet manifold bracket. The other one is the speed sensor and it counts the flywheel teeth (is there one missing??) and this plugs into the black connector on the inlet manifold bracket. If they're swapped over, the thing will never run. Maybe a sensor failed and the new ones were put in wrongly? |
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omega man
Groupie
Joined: 05-July-2005 Status: Offline Points: 90 |
Posted: 04-December-2005 at 17:21 |
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instead of making this a ****ing drama and a long drawn out ****ing story to make everyone trying to help you look like total ****, take this car of yours to a garage to sort out the bloody problem. ok.
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 04-December-2005 at 19:06 |
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Why would I constantly shell out my hard earned cash to test things that I can do at home off the advice of others? That's what a forum is all about my friend; your attitude disapoints many I am sure - not least due to me being a propagator of peace (and most of the rest of us too). I suspect you are missing the '****ing' point. -Ben P.S All the advice I get I refer to when I work on the car, and it can also be used by others who have a similar problem. Thanks for your advice again Drew; it has helped me out a lot. Edited by phb10186 |
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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siscobmw
Senior Member II 
Joined: 13-May-2005 Location: North Italy , near lake of Como Status: Offline Points: 201 |
Posted: 05-December-2005 at 12:35 |
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Hello! I hadn't the time to read the whole saga.... Have you tried the OBC relay?
In LHD cars is near the OBC brain....It often goes . Anyway, if you have ETM link (taken from bigcoupe.com) you can check which wires You have to connect with a jumper .. On older OBC1 You need to connect wire number14 and 15 of black OBC brain connector together...You will lose this feature of the OBC, but your car will start every time , the first time... Francesco from North Italy
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
Available from all good newsagents! Joined: 15-August-2005 Location: The Mansfield Massive Status: Offline Points: 632 |
Posted: 06-December-2005 at 16:52 |
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That's not a bad idea - I forgot all about that. This
could tie in with the car not starting after the bonnet slammed shut. Another way would be to disconnect the OBC completely - from the back of the instruments and from the OBC control unit. The OBC, when in anti theft mode blocks the ECU from doing anything. Taking the instrument cluster out of the 6 Series is a pain in the **** as it involves dropping the steering column and taking the steering wheel off. Well worth a try though. Sisco - can you post a picture of the relay?? |
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siscobmw
Senior Member II
Joined: 13-May-2005 Location: North Italy , near lake of Como Status: Offline Points: 201 |
Posted: 07-December-2005 at 06:29 |
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I can't sorry, as my car is a OBC 1 model(pre9/84) and this relay is inside the OBC brain.... If i find a pic I wil post it!!!! Francesco From Italy
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II
Say Neigh to Gatsos Joined: 11-April-2003 Location: Please let it be Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6381 |
Posted: 07-December-2005 at 16:18 |
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Apparently, it is not the "lug"...... Next development on this fascinatingly-frustrating saga will be on Sunday, I understand.... |
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 08-December-2005 at 02:19 |
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Francisco / Drew, This is a very interesting idea that you have put forward. I have done a lot of electrical stuff, such as old alarm and stereo removed and new ones put in (although they have been done while the car has been out of action). I have also had the SI board replaced, so a problem with the OBC side of things could be possible. Not a single fuse or relay within the fuse box is blown, they are all fine. Ill have to look and think about this. My flywheel would appear to be OK, as one gets about 4V, while the other is 0.2v (voltage from the flywheel sensors to the ECU that is). The next thing for me to do is to check that the ECU is getting this voltage..... This said, I must stress that I have tried my ECU in another car, and it works fine. Edited by phb10186 |
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 08-December-2005 at 02:21 |
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Some pictures of the OBC relay would be very helpful, and what procedure to follow... Francisco was talking about a post on the bigcoupegroup forum... -Ben |
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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siscobmw
Senior Member II
Joined: 13-May-2005 Location: North Italy , near lake of Como Status: Offline Points: 201 |
Posted: 09-December-2005 at 04:16 |
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MAybe You should look at this page: http://www.stormpages.com/countchocula1/bmw/etm203.htm (there's a picture of OBC relay box) http://www.stormpages.com/countchocula1/bmw/etm208.htm (location components ) The wiring diagrams are here: http://www.stormpages.com/countchocula1/bmw/etm123.htm Hope this helps! Francesco From Italy PS: near motronic brain there are 2 connectors, 1 white and one black.there' shuld be a little green wire going in and out white connector, that gives power to the ECU relays....This on my '83 model car, I think it shpuld be the same also on later cars... |
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phb10186
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 18-April-2005 Location: North London Status: Offline Points: 331 |
Posted: 11-December-2005 at 06:25 |
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I have tried the OBC relay, now that I come to think of it... It didnt start when I put another one in!
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1985 635 CSI with Style 134's 1998 Z3 2.8i |
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Drew540i
Really Senior Member II
Available from all good newsagents! Joined: 15-August-2005 Location: The Mansfield Massive Status: Offline Points: 632 |
Posted: 11-December-2005 at 06:38 |
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To be brutally frank;
You're totally out of your depth here, and you will never make this car work again. You don't have the knowledge, simple as that. Not being personal but you really don't know what you're doing. Might I echo Rob's comments? Take it to a specialist and get them to fix it, then tell everyone what the problem was. I think most of us are past caring now. |
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Non-start ..the saga continues!
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phb10186 wrote:
a section of it....all has been well since. Try it, you never know.