Guess where I was today

@ Dergside - *phew* some reply!

Lotus et al are not cheap, but mass production brings economies of scale that I'd be hoping would bring the cost down.. a bit simplistic I know.

I agree the first introduction of ABS & 4wd on road vehicles wasn't complete, and that significant refinements of the technologies, alot to do with electronics and processing speeds, have improved them beyond recognition. But innovation has to start somewhere I suppose..

Refinement of existing technology isn't innovation per se, but as you say new applications of existing technology is, if it brings real benefits and not gimmicks. So I think we're kind of singing from the same hymn sheet.

For example BMWs MINI uses the ABS sensors to determine if a wheel is flat by monitoring the rolling radius of all 4 tyres, and detecting if any tyres pressure drops below 70% of normal (as set by the datum of the other 3 tyres I presume). That's innovative compared to Renaults having a sender located inside the tyre to monitor actual pressure..

T.J. wrote: Rant over! But someone needs to grab the industry by the collar and get them to reduce weight and improve efficiency more. As a kind of related item, did anyone read this weeks Autocar letter of the week? A bloke basically saying that TVR, lotus et al can build a 150mph+ car with minimal gadgets, that weighs 1,100kg or less, and still passes relevent safety legislation. So why don't they build a simple, light, quick 2de saloon and revive the days of the E30 M3 etc.. great thought, isn't it? Imagine Lotus building one using a modular Hydro-formed platform with windup windows, simple heater, seats for 4, an S2000 2.2L V-tec motor and weighing around 1,150kg. Some machine... Anyway, I'm out the gap - enjoy the Bank holiday everyone - drive safely!

TJ

The easiest way to reduce or control weight is to make mechanical systems electronic (in theory it should also improve reliability because there are fewer moving parts - still a bit early for that to be true in practice). 

True, Lotus and so on can build light cars, but not cheaply.  Mass manufacturers could also build them, but few consumers are willing to pay the cost of achieveing it. 

You are also right about some of the things mentioned having been around in some shape or form for some time, but in many cases the earlier versions were far less "complete".  The Ferguson four wheel drive system that also incorporated mechanical abs on the Jensen Interceptor was relatively crude and ultimately not entirely reliable.  Would anyone today tolerate abs that "might" work? 

The first manufacturer to fit abs as standard to all the cars in a particular model was Ford with the Granada in 1985.  There has been a gradual adoption until the point where it is now virtually unversal.

If by innovation you mean "revolutionary" then you are right, there are very few truely original innovations, but refining existing technology and identifying new applications are equally innovative.  The other thing about revolutionary ideas is tha they are seldom faultless or can't be improved and need to be refined to a level where they are sufficiently reliable and cost effective to be useful.  Like with abs.  It started as a niche solution until innovations occurred that refined it to the extent that it was robust enough and cost effective for wider deplooyment.

The company I work for designed "accelerometers" years ago for use in air bags - detecting the g forces that go with a crash and calculating whether it is sufficiently serious to trigger deployment of the bags).  The same technology was then used in car security systems to detect if your car has been moved, jacked up (to rob your wheels) or lifted (on to a trailer to be stolen).  This wasn't new technology in the second case, but it was a new application and therefore innovative.

All these applications have been around for yonks, but the fact they've made their way to cars isn't innovation per se.

HUDs have been on Corvettes for around 15 years now (give or take a few yrs). ABS was developed on WW2 planes in the 40s, and a mechanical version made its way into Jensen Interceptors in the 60s. I do agree it is a fantastic thing to have in a car though.

While I suppose, breaking out the thesaurus, innovation is "change, invention, feature, fad, novelty" etc, I don't consider it innovation unless there is a bit of a revolution to established methods of doing things.

Variable capacity engines (being developed apace by Saab), active ride (too costly and heavy for benefits), development in efficencies of power supplies (Prius, Lexus RX300h etc.. though fossil fuel is still the generator of the electric power), new materials in car manufacture leading to reduced weight, better recycling etc), even adaptive cruise control and the natural evolution to managed high-speed motorway work.

This is true innovation in my opinion. The rest is a bunch of engineers who have approached the envelope and rather try to push it, have focused on .... stupidity in alot of cases (Strong words I know). I mean, wipers on a VW Phaeton that lift themselves every 2nd sweep to equalise wear on both sides of the rubber... would you be bothered, either as a wiper development engineer, or as a prospective purchaser? Particularly as said Phaeton is 2,300kg, a whopping 600kg heavier than an Audi A8!

HUD is a good development, ABS, stabilty control etc are also relevant (as long as u can shut the TCS, DSC etc off for a bit of messing ) but alot of other stuff is carp.

Rant over! But someone needs to grab the industry by the collar and get them to reduce weight and improve efficiency more.

As a kind of related item, did anyone read this weeks Autocar letter of the week? A bloke basically saying that TVR, lotus et al can build a 150mph+ car with minimal gadgets, that weighs 1,100kg or less, and still passes relevent safety legislation. So why don't they build a simple, light, quick 2de saloon and revive the days of the E30 M3 etc.. great thought, isn't it? Imagine Lotus building one using a modular Hydro-formed platform with windup windows, simple heater, seats for 4, an S2000 2.2L V-tec motor and weighing around 1,150kg. Some machine...

Anyway, I'm out the gap - enjoy the Bank holiday everyone - drive safely! 

Robbie Bradford wrote: Heads-up display in a roadcar = innovation.

It's in fighter aircraft aswell but i'm talkin' about road cars.

The Fastest wrote: Sorry Robbie, but then what?

When you've hosted the picture you want to use, then write down the URL i.e. http://www.bmwmovies.net/ picture/number/etc.

Then type the URL in the signature box in you profile settings.

Just mess around with it you'll work it out after a while 

I'm sure someone can give a better explanation than mine BTW

its great to see engineering and innovation is still alive and well,

Haven't seen any innovation for decades, we're still using pistons ffs, all that seems to happen is they include more electrickery and gadgets that just stop working after a few years anyway.  They've only refined the trusty internal combustion engine over the years, no true innovation.  I'd have thought we'd all be driving jet engined motors by now. Rant over. Yeah i am pissed, long story.