An e12 - how much?? |
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VonPaulus
Banned User Joined: 24-April-2005 Location: Hamburg and U.K Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Posted: 16-May-2005 at 17:42 |
Sadly this is the difference between classic car
shows in the U.K and everywhere else. At the end of the day most cars are just a tool for a job. BMW 520, Chevette, Allegro - all cars that nobody really lusted over when they were new. So what's changed? You will not see many 520's at a classic car meet (BMW or otherwise) in ze Fatherland. We regarded them as being a Munich taxi, nothing more. If every E12 520 was crushed, the world would not mourn them. I would not cross the road to look at a Chevette, or the Opel Kadett equivalent of Ze Germans. Sorry. I remember them from my early days in U.K...or do I? You don't have to buy an E Type or a 300SL Gullwing to enjoy a classic car. An E12 M535i is STILL a very quick car. A 6 Series is a classic car yet still comparatively cheap to buy. Every time I see one, I turn and look. "That's a really pretty car". An Opel Monza Coupe is a very striking car, very desirable when new, worth next to nothing now. You can buy a Mercedes SEC, a stunning looking car style by Bruno Sacco for a couple of thousand in decent order. My colleague has a perfect condition 1969 2 door MG1300 (remember those :-)). I use it to pop to the bank. It amazes me how modern it feels. 70 bhp with 750 kg and close ratio gears. To think that 40 years ago you were making cheap cars with disc brakes, independent hydraulic suspension, FWD and so much interior room when VW were selling crappy Beetles to ignorant Americans and most Brits were buying even worse Fords. Guys, raise your Horizons a little. If a car was crap when it was new, it's crap now. Nothing has changed. I would not give 10 pence for that Bronze one, it's just an old cooker to me. |
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Martin325iSport
Newbie Joined: 09-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Posted: 16-May-2005 at 06:43 |
Doive, Insurance for the 'M' is not as bad as you would imagine. I have a classic policy via Aon, underwritten by Royal & Sun Alliance. This covers both the M535i and Baur fully comp with agreed values for less than a year's road tax cost....... |
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Goldryder
Bavarian-Board Contributor Illegitimi Non Carborundum Joined: 02-April-2004 Location: Acomb, North Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 5301 |
Posted: 16-May-2005 at 06:21 |
The older model cars in the BMW range have a certain character and poise about them that the models thrown off the production line now will sadly never have. OK the oldies might get a bit rusty and may not have the get up and go that people want nowadays but they will always have a place in the hearts of those who love and cherish them. When I finally got my 635CSi I hoped I could get her back into a good condition but alas this was not to be, for a variety of reasons. But given the choice of a new car or a classic oldie, I would plumb for the classic oldie everytime.
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Doive
Really Senior Member II Joined: 09-February-2005 Location: Clinging to a turbine, Hexham Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
Posted: 16-May-2005 at 06:15 |
Very good points Martin, nice to hear someone speaking from continued experience of these wonderful cars. You have a Baur and an M535i? Nicely done. Maybe someday I'll be able to afford the insurance for such a beast as an M car.
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1987 BMW 525e Lux Auto (sadly deceased)
Get Firefox - Ditch Hopeless Inertnet Exploder www.doive.co.uk |
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Martin325iSport
Newbie Joined: 09-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Posted: 16-May-2005 at 05:51 |
Compared to later offerings from BMW and other performance manufacturers, the E12 M535i is inferior. At the time its creation in 1979/80, it was however one of the quickest and best handling 4 door saloon cars available. As with the majority of classic cars it is easy to comment retrospectively in 2005 that a particular make / model was a bad car. With the benefit of hindsight you can pick holes (no rust puns please!) in most previous car designs. If a car was perfect, why update / replace the model? The reason that most of us here choose to own older BMWs is not to rival the driving characteristics of the lastest 3, 5 or 7 series, but to drive something we that we enjoy and gain pleasure from keeping examples of older models on the road and in good condition - so that new generations of BMW drivers can still get to see the marque's heritage. My E21 Baur and E12 M535i evoke momories of cars I wanted to own as a child in the late 1970's and that I now have! I still own and drive modern cars and appreciate their improved refinement, improved passive and active safety, etc. However, given the choice for pleasure driving I will always take one of my older BMWs. They create a sense of driving enjoyment that most new cars cannot achieve. As always this is an individual choice and there will only be so many people who want to take on the responsibility of older / classic BMW ownership. If car ownership needs to be entirely practical and efficient, a 25 year old car - of any make - is probably not going to be top of the shopping list......
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Doive
Really Senior Member II Joined: 09-February-2005 Location: Clinging to a turbine, Hexham Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
Posted: 15-May-2005 at 10:39 |
I love the challenge of keeping a car on the road that anyone else
would have scrapped years ago. A chevette never has been and never will
be desirable or valuable, yet last time I had the car on display at a
classic car show everyone ignored the Jags and MGs to come and see my
little rusty orange saloon. Why? Because they hadn't seen one for
years, and nostalga is much stronger than any money value. Personally I
wouldn't want an e-type jag - expensive, overrated and a swine to work
on. Much rather direct my efforts to keeping old unwanted classics on
the road, rather than paying thousands to own one of the 'proper'
classics and fit in with the crowd.
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1987 BMW 525e Lux Auto (sadly deceased)
Get Firefox - Ditch Hopeless Inertnet Exploder www.doive.co.uk |
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bmw1066
Really Senior Member II GOOD OLD E23 Joined: 16-January-2005 Location: West Sussex Nr Brighton Status: Offline Points: 1095 |
Posted: 15-May-2005 at 09:45 |
My dad's 520 e12 was a good car drove very well and I allways got exsited about going for a run in it. Sham we part xed it for a Rover Montgo. You are so right Doive, I love all classic cars wether thay were good or not ther all fun to drive, People put a lot of time and effort in to there cars wether it's BMW or a Allegro and people just take the **** for it. it is not right, Well dun to you all. Edited, please follow the language guidelines Edited by Nigel |
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Mark 735 se 1982
RED BARON A E23 is for life not just for x-mas BMW e34 530 v8 Sport kit Spelling always Bad |
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Doive
Really Senior Member II Joined: 09-February-2005 Location: Clinging to a turbine, Hexham Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
Posted: 14-May-2005 at 14:50 |
Surely that misses the point somewhat. An Austin Allegro was an awful
car by all accounts, yet there are still a small group of people
committed to saving them. Wasting their time? I don't think so. Always
pleases me to see a mint Allegro at a classic show, I have never seen a
e12 up close to determine if it is in fact a bad car or not - sadly
there are none left for the up and coming generation of car enthusiasts
like me to make their own choices. I hope to have an e12 some day to
form my own opinions.
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1987 BMW 525e Lux Auto (sadly deceased)
Get Firefox - Ditch Hopeless Inertnet Exploder www.doive.co.uk |
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VonPaulus
Banned User Joined: 24-April-2005 Location: Hamburg and U.K Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Posted: 14-May-2005 at 14:34 |
The E12 was not hand built, it was churned out
along with all the other E12's. It was a 528 with 635CSi running gear. As for there not being many E12 520's left - well thank Christ for that. What a god awful car they were. |
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PaulS
Really Senior Member II East Anglia BMWCC Regional Chairman Joined: 03-July-2004 Location: Aylsham, Norfolk Status: Offline Points: 2516 |
Posted: 14-May-2005 at 04:37 |
Mine could be up for sale very shortly if you're interested Nick. Could be purchasing an E34 soon but my car will have the 16" Alessios back on. Will keep the alpinas for the new car. Paul |
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95 E34 530i V8 Auto Maldives Blue |
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
Posted: 13-May-2005 at 07:17 |
If I recall correctly there was also an e12 533i available in the US with the 633csi engine.
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M3AG
Really Senior Member II 7 series & e36 m3 registrar! (Madness) Joined: 17-October-2002 Location: Good Old Hertfordshire Status: Offline Points: 1644 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 09:10 |
yes, I read that they had put the 3.0 engine in the 528i of the time for the Director of BMW plus some choice performance parts, and also some 3.3 engines in the e12's for some noteable racing drivers of the period. Few survive although the first one (Directors car) is rumoured to have ended up here in the UK.
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Philip
Really Senior Member II E23 the forgotten 80s BMW Joined: 28-January-2005 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 1425 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 07:56 |
Andy, my braintree mech had two E12 M535's last time I called in. he loves them. pop round and buy one! I seem to recall one of them has a blueprinted engine, said to be VERY tasty. Was it you who said that before the official E12 M535 was launched, the M Power Division built some high power E12's to individual order for very special German customers. were they BMW racing drivers perhaps?
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Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer '85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ '86 E28 528iA SE - Dia Black - Helga '86 E23 728iA SE - Polaris - The CHAV mobile |
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Martin325iSport
Newbie Joined: 09-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 07:53 |
Philip, I agree with your comments. Unfortunately I can't put photos of my M535i up on the forum at present as I still haven't go around to sorting out a digi. camera. Mine presently needs a bit more time and money spent on it to make A1 but i'm in the process of selling my E30 325i Sport to help fund this. Once the car is how I want it to be, i'll bring it along to some of the club meets.
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Philip
Really Senior Member II E23 the forgotten 80s BMW Joined: 28-January-2005 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 1425 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 07:52 |
you are correct Mr Derg, its my annoying habit to call the E12 M535 an M5. its a true hand built M car and deserves to be called an M5 IMO. I think they are just stunning. hardly any left now. |
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Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer '85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ '86 E28 528iA SE - Dia Black - Helga '86 E23 728iA SE - Polaris - The CHAV mobile |
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M3AG
Really Senior Member II 7 series & e36 m3 registrar! (Madness) Joined: 17-October-2002 Location: Good Old Hertfordshire Status: Offline Points: 1644 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 06:00 |
but it was the first of the specific M versions, which in turn paved the way for the M derived cars.
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Dergside
Really Senior Member II Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 05:17 |
Philip There wasn't an M5 in the E12 range. Top of the range was the M535i built in very limited numbers in rhd around 80/81. |
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Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.
Prev: e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci. e39 523i SE. e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE. e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i. |
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Philip
Really Senior Member II E23 the forgotten 80s BMW Joined: 28-January-2005 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 1425 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 03:56 |
What is the value of a nice W regd M5 E12 vs a nice W regd 635Csi? like you say, the M5 E12 is a hand built genuine M car. the E28 M535i is a std production line 535i with a few M bits bolted on. not the same deal at all. can we see some pics outside/inside of your caR? |
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Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer '85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ '86 E28 528iA SE - Dia Black - Helga '86 E23 728iA SE - Polaris - The CHAV mobile |
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Philip
Really Senior Member II E23 the forgotten 80s BMW Joined: 28-January-2005 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 1425 |
Posted: 12-May-2005 at 03:45 |
Andy G has an Alpina B9 which may be FS. My 528i SE may be up for sale, but I won't sell for peanuts. plenty of E28's on fleabay but please be aware most of them will have rust in the sills/floors/jacking points. these cars are often abused/neglected by uncaring skinflints who buy tham as a cheap fast bangers |
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Philip
'86 E23 735iA SE - Polaris - The Silver Surfer '85 E23 735iA SE - Cosmos Blue - VJ '86 E28 528iA SE - Dia Black - Helga '86 E23 728iA SE - Polaris - The CHAV mobile |
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Horsetan
Really Senior Member II Say Neigh to Gatsos Joined: 11-April-2003 Location: Please let it be Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6381 |
Posted: 11-May-2005 at 16:35 |
Brown. Oh....my.... God.....
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