Shock horror, E36 M3 3.2 rubbish on track

Mmmm, interesting.

I took mine to Rockingham last week. I fitted OMP Road & Sport pads and didn't have any brake fade at all (20 minute sessions). Top speed achieved was only 110mph or so, but some big stops into hairpins were handled fine.

Turn in. For what is a heavy car I was impressed, especially in the wet. My front tyres were pretty worn before I got there, and the understeer was definitely increase towards the end of a run - nothing horrendous though.

When I went on an airfield training day I was getting a lot of understeer. Using the wheel less aggresively made a huge difference, we also learned a trail-braking technique that really gets the beast turned in.

Useful stuff thanks.

Of course I'm not Sterling Moss, but I have thousands of competitive track miles under my belt on two wheels, and I know rubbish brakes when I use them.  My supermono, hell even my old RD350YPVS would stand on its front wheel every corner for dozens of laps without the slightest hint of fade.

The turn in seemed wrong too, I honed my technique during the course of the evening and was able to improve stuff through responding to the needs of the car, but the it basically felt like an overweight barge.  I defy anyone to drive that car and get the neutrality these supposed perfectly balanced cars are supposed to have.

Next time I'll reduce my front tyre pressures -- some advice I got from a proper racing driver, who accompanied me for a few laps and agreed about the problems.

Andy 

Andy, do you think the front wheel alignment is out maybe?

Still doesn't explain the chronic brake fade though, is the fluid nearing the end of its useful life?

Andy, I know how you feel,

I have a background in bikes and made the move over to another "fast" car a couple of years ago and got the biggest bang for my ££ I could afford.

An Imprezza turbo, what a let down, awful brakes, loads of under steer, poor direction change at speed, wallowy, all could be put right to a degree, but at what cost?

I couldn’t believe what I was driving after all the hype id heard and read about them…I guess if you had come from a hot hatch or similar you’d be impressed

Ive never driven a road going “sports” car that had what I would call decent brakes from the factory, so I think your observations are correct from my experiences.

Even the E46 M3 CSL gets stick over its brakes and theres one lad on the BWMCC forum who seems to change his E39 M5 brakes every other week

Most “sports” production cars have failings in one or more of these areas’s as they come out of the factory.

Maybe worth investing in some aftermarket gear or braided lines/fluid change as a minimum…

I couldn’t get over the disappointment ,so settled for a “normal” car and went back to my bikes, the real deal , as they come out of the factory with very little of the compromises that a production car has

A state of the art engine/chassis/suspension/brake/tyres and up to constant abuse with no need to start throwing ££££££’s at them for fast road/track work.

I was commenting to the missus last week after hurling it through some roundabouts/corners/straight bits near my place, it's amazing how such a competent road car could disappoint so much on the track.

Like this morning 0430 start Norwich->Sunbury ~140miles by 0615.  In total comfort, 26mpg, arrive refreshed.

Try that in the Caterfield.

Andy

I know the e36 M3 has much more power, however, everything ive ever read on the e30 M3 says what an awesome track day car they are...Which seems logical as the e30 was built to win races and the E36 was a "just" a performance road car, right?

How much better is the E30 over the E36 on the track?

I don't think my brake problem arose from them running too cold judging from the putrid stench of brakes on fire every time I came in :)

If those rubber pipes are past their best, when filled with 200 degree brake fluid they will swell and take up my pedal travel rather than put the pads onto the disk, I am certain braided hoses would solve the long pedal I was getting. 

If the pedal was firm but I was having to lift myself off the seat standing on it to slow down, then I'd accept a pad/disk problem.

I might consider getting braided pipes, or alternatively take your suggestions -- brake like a pussy from hundreds of meters away just to maintain an equilibrium, then spend a bit of effort sorting out the understeer with tyre pressures.

Andy

lancelotII wrote: brybusa wrote: I know the e36 M3 has much more power, however, everything ive ever read on the e30 M3 says what an awesome track day car they are...Which seems logical as the e30 was built to win races and the E36 was a "just" a performance road car, right? How much better is the E30 over the E36 on the track?   This has been discussed many times before and normally is a fairly emotive subject. The purists love the E30 (like me.. ) However, in stock form it still exhibits similar characteristics to the e36, it will understeer, the brakes are ok, but won't last for ever, but in terms of balance and feel it's in a different league. The steering is sublime (BMW still haven't made a car that steers as well). The engine is less powerful than the e36, but you don't need to slow down so much for the corners, it's all about carrying speed momentum and commitment. For a comparison why not join us at Brands on the evening of the 22nd, I would be pleased to chauffeur you around for a couple of laps, after that you can draw your own conclusions.....

I can well imagine its an emotive subject!

22nd May?

Would that be just be an evening ?..If so, what time would I need to be there?

Are you on the full circuit?

Thats enough questions for now.....