Ditching the AFM

Wasn't there a silver E28 with a fitted E34 3.8 lump in TBMW a few years back?? This thread just reminded me of that.....I think that would be amazing....(having owned a 3.8) an E24 that goes like a E34 3.8.

Good on ya Check it out!

P.S...I'm happy with my stock e24 as there's alway's the 450hp Dodge to use!

I've got an Emerald ECU that uses a TPS for it's main load input for N/A engines or a MAP sensor for F/I.

When i swapped from a Super Chip to the Emerald i gained nothing at the top end, where it improved things was how eager the engine responds to light/part throttle movements which made the engine seems more torquey. TBH i was a little disapointed with the gains V's the the cost involved but what it has given me is the option to use TB's or F/I and to be able to tune to get the best out of any future mods.

Motronic ECU's/AFM's are perfectly fine for a lightly modified N/A(ported head/cam/six branch/etc) engine with a suitable chip, if you start looking at TB's or F/I then it becomes a big hinderance.

If i were looking at a stand alone ECU then it would be a toss up in between Emerald and Mega squirt. Emerald seems to be a bit more user friendly but more expensive than M/S. M/S is cheaper but it's slightly more involved/techy.

If you fancy the M/S but don't want to install or map it then theres a well respected chap on the E30zone forum called Ant who has installed and mapped a few of these ECU's on Turbo and N/A E30's with good results.

With an M30 i'd say to keep things fairly cheap a chip and cam perk the old M30 up a treat and give about 240bhp depending on which cam/chip is used. Head work only going to push it up to around 250bhp, from then on it's the law of deminising(sp?) returns V's cost.

I think a 300bhp+ M30 is possible but it will cost big time money and will/might involve some of the things below.

3.8 M5 crank (1400 quid plus VAT new plus macheening costs to get it to work in an M30)

custom pistons 11:1 C/R, may be slightly bigger bore for a few more cc's ?

Custom con rods

BIG cam high 290's to low 300's

Head ported in conjunction with the TB's

M5 or Jenvy TB's with a well designed plenum and air filter set up

Six branch manifold and exhaust from some one who knows their stuf

stand alone ECU(but it's only as good as the person thats mapping it so chose well !)

But back from the land of dreams...........an M5 engine will get you your 300bhp+ if it's got to be N/A. Or theres a chap on the Zone who's just Turbo charged his 335, just 5-6psi of boost has got him around 300-330bhp. It's intercooled and running on a M/S Ecu mapped by Ant, he's run out of head room on his 30lb injectors or it would have ment more boost.

At the mo my M30 has a ported head/inlet manifold,Schrick 284/280 cam, Emerald ECU with no AFM/MAF which was mapped by Dave Walker formally of CCC mag and now PPC mag.

Soon it shall have an Alpina B10 bottom end(Mahle 10.6:1 C/R pistons and M5 con rods) and this twin 60mm TB mod.

Drew540i wrote: Lots of people talk big figures but oddly don't have any dyno sheets to back it up with. M30, 300 bhp? That's a bit more involved than bodging some M3 wings onto an old E30! No Way. For a start, you'll find the M30 has six very effective rev limiters called con rods. At much over 7000 rpm they will break across the beam which is why the M5/M6 engine has special rods which are lighter, stronger and longer (meaning you cannot use them with M30 pistons). Alpha N is okay but all too often it can't take barometric pressure into account - rich one day, lean the next. The AMM thing isn't the obvious solution on an M30 because there are other things to do first. The first is a good rechip where you'll find about 10 bhp+ straight away and much better driveability. As has been dyno proven this gives much more power per ££ than anything else. Second is the cam which is so tame as to be beyond belief. Something like a Piper 270 degree cam is just right. With a cam and chip you'll get about 230-240 bhp. From what I've seen the wild claims made for various exhaust manifolds don't stack up on the dyno - certainly not for what they cost! Once you've done a cam and chip THEN it's time to think about air mass meters - yeah right, 20 bhp my a*se. Not a hope in hell! Air mass meters are more about throttle response than top end power although you will gain a little (@5-8 bhp?). You can have an air mass meter the size of a dustbin but you can't get any more air past that throttle disc. Think about the air flow meter with the flap right open though. Outside diameter 76mm but the hole that counts is only 63mm x 47mm which does pose a restriction. The old air flow meter isn't a bad old thing really. Bosch recon ones are actually new units sold in a different box. The same thing in another box is sold for twice the price via BMW. The guy to speak to about this is Andy335Touring on E30 Zone who has built a much better system that does everything on a throttle switch and sensors. Witha cam and some mild headwork he's up to 260 brake.

oh no, back to the sae thing! its a target!!!

before you get to the 7000, the clutches don't like anything the wrong side of 6500 really.

bodging the wings on? thanks drew....., have a better look at the photo's. considering i'm no bodyshop, they look near as damn it original to me, whilst im not trying to make it an m3, the wings fit seamlessly with the car.

engine wise, 300 or m "TARGET" would require a complete engine re-build, and re-think. this includes conrods obviously, arp headbolts etc etc! and i havn't even started about rod bolts, pistons, flywheel etc etc.

Comments on the amm, afm, maf etc make sense to me. i wouldnt expect 20bhp from the change over. oh, the heads, done, and running a piper 288 cam anyway.

Never known alot about webbers etc, but these might be able to help.

https://secure9.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp? CS=ireland&BusType=BtoC&Count1=305996119&Count2= 223136544&CategoryID=42&Target=products%2Easp

https://secure9.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp? CS=ireland&BusType=BtoC&Count1=756923854&Count2= 674064278

*drool*

lol. its a plan. i never "planned" to learn to weld, and fit genuine saloon m3 wings to the convertible, but did.

I intend to ge the whole lump on the m30 overhauled, lightened and balanced. Im not in competition with alpina, or schnitzer. its just what i think, and its a project, i don't expect it to go to plan, but follow it roughly and get me somewhere near the 300 mark. I could fit a v12, indeed i considered it, but for 2000 reasons for and 2000 against i went with the m30. How i far i will get is anybodys guess. what i do know is that it will be about as far as a street engine can go.