M6 power output
Printed From: Bavarian-Board.co.uk - BMW Owners Discussion Forum
Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW 6 Series
Forum Discription: This forum will deal with any issues on the BMW 6 Series (E24, E63 & E64)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=7053
Printed Date: 11-May-2024 at 11:04
Topic: M6 power output
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Subject: M6 power output
Date Posted: 16-April-2004 at 19:46
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I read something the other day that I didn't believe so I thought I would ask the experts! This guy was claiming that non of the BMW M6s that came to this country had the quoted 286bhp. Apparently Munich detuned the engines buy lowering the compression ratio to give around 230bhp. The reason was because they considered the petrol in Britiain to be of poor quality and not good enough for the 286bhp engine. Does anyone know if this is true, or is it a load of rubbish. If it was true then what would have been the point in buying the M6 since the std 635 had 218BHP and was a lot cheaper. I await your higher wisdom! ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Replies:
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 16-April-2004 at 20:25
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I have not had the privilege of having my standard Six tested on a rolling road, still less the M635CSi....
Certainly there have been one or two reports of M6 owners discovering on a rolling road that their cars were "down" to 240-ish bhp, and corrective action being swiftly taken.... -------------   
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Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 17-April-2004 at 00:04
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As far as i am aware having chatted with Howard on this subject most early M6's were of the correct 286 BHP, but some of the latest Highline model sixes were well down on power as had an American spec engine management. Certainly my friends M635 has just been rolling roaded and it gave only 226bhp at the wheels approx 240 at the fly wheel, but is soon going to be rechipped which should bring it up to the correct measure. Howard also comented to me that his later model M6 did not feel nearly as quick as his older one and that he would be pursuing a rolling road tune iminently. Like horsetan having never owned an M6 or had mine on the rollers it's difficult to comment more than this. Would love to see what my old girl can do though. -------------  Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events
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Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 17-April-2004 at 09:13
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fyi; -my nerdy book of facts says Euro '84 M635 286bhp,3325lbs,10.5:1 compression. '87 US M6, 256bhp,3570lbs, 9.8:1 compression. Only 500-odd RHD M635s were ever built, apparently in batches, the last being about 50off in 1989. Presumably with the imminent arrival of unleaded fuel everywhere, '87-on standard 635s run 9.2:1 compression, c.f. 10:1 for earlier versions of the 3430cc engine. I wonder if they sneakily altered the M635CSi for similar reasons? hmmm.....
------------- ~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 17-April-2004 at 23:59
Only 524 RHD built. Probably no more than 400 to 450 left.... -------------
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Brucey wrote:Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 00:54
Thats 5 or 6 left for the rest of you then, after howards and james fleets. ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 18:41
Nah, Howard's already bought them all..... The rest of us don't get a look in  -------------
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Posted By: Peter H
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 18:47
Errr - we seem to be dscussing Howards article in this months Magazine, section on us spec engines fitted ?  ------------- Das Wolperdinger AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 18:54
I do not have the pleasure of seeing any month's Magazine, as I am not actually a "Member"... *kof* -------------
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Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 19:09
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Well shame on you horsey, join straight away !!!!!! ------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: Peter H
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 19:10
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Oh ....... its on Pages 18 & 19 if that helps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------- Das Wolperdinger AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 19:11
Groucho Marx: "I wouldn't want to be a Member of any Club that would have me as a Member....."
 -------------
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Posted By: Peter H
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 19:18
 Was that Karl & Bernards other brother ? ------------- Das Wolperdinger AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 18-April-2004 at 23:36
Marx Brothers, darling, Marx Brothers..... -------------
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Posted By: Nigel
Date Posted: 19-April-2004 at 00:12
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Mega bucks earning solicitor, fleet of 6 series cars, own stables and ranch, but.................... A non member !!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, what can one say ????????
------------- Best Wishes Nigel |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 19-April-2004 at 09:53
One 635CSi does not a fleet make (that's Howard's territory)... ...also you don't exactly earn megabucks if most of your work is legally-aided (it often feels like you're doing it pro bono) ...and I don't own a ranch - let's not be so American, now, shall we? -------------
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Posted By: Peter H
Date Posted: 19-April-2004 at 20:03
Wasn`t Bono in U2 ? and who is the ........Moderated by me  ------------- Das Wolperdinger AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 20-April-2004 at 08:52
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Got my copy of the club magazine yesterday and read the above mentioned article. If I had been in the position of splashing out 60K on an M6 then discovered that it only had 240bhp I think I would have been a little bit anoyed. At least it wasn't too much trouble to put right, although if it was me I would have been taking it back to BMW an getting them to sort it By the way...How many emoticons!!! ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 20-April-2004 at 09:55
*sigh*... Do you write your own material? It's Latin, dear. "Pro bono" effectively means "for free" -------------
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Posted By: Peter H
Date Posted: 20-April-2004 at 18:02
Do you think i would pay for such rubbish ? Not many people i know did latin, Anyway - Ban-gap sup-ne da & AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO  ------------- Das Wolperdinger AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 20-April-2004 at 18:36
Are Ye Right There, Father....? -------------
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Posted By: MickHarris
Date Posted: 21-April-2004 at 10:09
theres no way on earth that a car showing 226bhp at the wheels is only giving 240 at the flywheel, thats a loss of just 6%.
15% is more likely, and with the wheesl figure at 226bhp it wud give roughly 265bhp at the fly. still not as good as it shud be, but not bad considering the age and mileage of most M635's |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 21-April-2004 at 11:09
Don't worry too much about the statistics. When you've been on here long enough, you will notice that there are times when "Sohlman's" enthusiasm gets the better of him...! -------------
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Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 21-April-2004 at 21:53
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Well i don't know much about rolling roads as you can tell, but i will possible know more as there is one comming up organised by Nigel that i may take the old girl to and after that day i should know more. ------------- Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events
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Posted By: MickHarris
Date Posted: 22-April-2004 at 00:40
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15 - 17% is the general loss from a rwd.
most decent rr's will give u a figure for wheels and an extrapolated one for the flywheel (worked out thru coastdown transmission losses altho this isnt always totally accurate) just make sure u use a decent rr really |
Posted By: RossM6/635csi
Date Posted: 02-May-2004 at 21:52
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Good evening gang May i will be able to shed some light on this subject . I have a very late M6 and its going to Black and White Racing in Aylesbury later this week to go on their rolling road to get the BHP checked . Will keep you informed. Ross ------------- RossM6/635CSI |
Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 02-May-2004 at 22:06
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Until last year my Dad (Ex BMW GB) owned AmD and in his time dynoed a few M635CSi's. Late ones are generally down on power. A well known car belonging to Ron Creed ( a lovely grey F plater seen on many track days) was down to 240 bhp but a remap of the ECU brought it back up to over 280 bhp - the difference was amazing so it's just the ECU.
Although semi retired he could borrow a dyno and remap an M6 properly - beware these nasty plug in chips because they don't work properly. Don't forget that an old car like this will need something custom made to get the best from it. If anyone wants it done, send me a mail and I'll see what I can do. He's in the Oxford area by the way. |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 03-May-2004 at 13:51
Academic question only at the moment, Andyboy, but what is the position regarding "standard" 635CSis, particularly those from 1983 (this is of interest not only to me, but to one or two others with 1983 cars)? Is it possible to "re-map" the ECUs in these, or are they permanently fixed? -------------
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Posted By: Jonners
Date Posted: 14-May-2004 at 18:35
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One point worth mentioning here is that the Highline M6's weighed a ton compared with the early ones.
And wot's the point of having a leather dashboard - almost turned a lovely car into a hairdresser's carriage. Aplogies to Highline owners out there.... |
Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 14-May-2004 at 21:54
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-likewise I'd like to know what can be done with the ECU of a 635CSi 82-86 vintage..... -I'm sure anything is possible in principle, but there is no substitute for someone having done it before, and able to say 'yup, I can do it again...' cheers
------------- ~~~~~~~ Brucey ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 14-May-2004 at 23:29
It just so happens that an acquaintance of mine in the Bromsgrove area might be able to shed some light on that in the near future... -------------
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Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 16-May-2004 at 20:07
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Rather like my leather dash actually - if it's good enough for Alpina, Aston Martin, Ferrari etc.
------------- AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be. http://www.photostick.co.uk/view-933_BaurSig1.jpg" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 17-May-2004 at 09:57
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I have to admit I quite like the idea of a leather dash too. Has to be a lot better than plastic. ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: Jonners
Date Posted: 20-May-2004 at 14:34
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Astons and Ferraris ARE hairdressers' cars
It's unfortunate that this style crime was perpetrated on Alpinas too Only kidding... The thing is that the leather might be nice to have but the performance of the later cars suffered. That wouldn't put hardressers off tho...but then again few people are going to chose any BMW for the interiors. ?performance -v- pose value? Very subjective/emotive issue |
Posted By: Peter H
Date Posted: 23-May-2004 at 09:09
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You know someone up here ??? ------------- Das Wolperdinger AHN-NYUNG-HEE GA-SEH-YO |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 23-May-2004 at 16:13
Yes, but only one.... -------------
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Posted By: RossM6/635
Date Posted: 27-May-2004 at 12:16
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Hi fellow M6 lovers I will to try and help with this power question on the M6 . I have had Geoff Everett ( ex AMD ) and Andyboys dad, play with my 1989 M6 . He meet me at Black and White Racing where we put the car on their rolling road . Well the power was well down , so he set to work on remapping the chip and also resetting the thottle , as it only opened 75 % . The car now shows 225 BHP at the wheels, and 299.9 BHP at the flywheel. Obviously the flywheel reading is the machines best estimate by mesuring the drag of the drive train etc . Can i suggest if you have any problems or want to get your cars checked then speak to Andrews dad . Geoff and Black and White racing were very good . Await your replies Ross
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Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 27-May-2004 at 16:07
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Jonners Er... not sure why you think Ferraris and Astons are hairdressers cars. They could be decribed as many things but not that. I believe the aston DB7 was designed with golf playing executives in mind. Also it's not a bit of leather on the dashboard that makes perfomance suffer. All TVRs have leather dashboards and they all weigh less than £1100Kg. You might question the reliabillirty of TVRs but their performance is almost unparralled for the price. What makes cars slow is the huge ammount of gadgets such as heated, electric memory sun visors, 75 airbags, Stabillity control and the 50 other devices that make up for the drivers lack of skill. Expensive, fast cars are as much about how they make you feel as how fast they go and a bit of leather on the dash just makes the car feel that bit more special than having to look at a big chuck of plastic. Get rid of the electric heated seats and keep the leather dash! ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 27-May-2004 at 18:21
Ross: I am told Andyboy is currently suspended from the Forum for a month, but may return. Any direct contact details for Geoff Everett? -------------
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Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 28-May-2004 at 09:49
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[/QUOTE] Why what did he do?? or is that information top secret!! BTW how do you do that thing where you quote someone else and it comes up in a white box with 'joe bloggs wrote' in black above. ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: Jonners
Date Posted: 28-May-2004 at 14:02
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Peter
I agree with you - was just being flippant to make the point. The gizmo thing on new cars is really daft in my view - my preference is for manual windows/seats/mirrors/sunroof/locking - i'd even get a radio with an old fashioned dial if I could - hate the compicated modern ones. Weight is the issue and altho the M6 is a luxury express it's best to get an early one as the performance is better. |
Posted By: Peter Fenwick
Date Posted: 28-May-2004 at 14:36
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Jonners, my biggest pet hate is rain sensitive wipers. I mean whats the point. Is it really that dificult to operate a switch. I preffered cars when they were simple. About 10 years ago I used to own a sierra with a pinto engine. Now the car was a bit of a banger, handled like a boat and the engine was about as basic as they come but it was dead simple to work on. No complicated electrics to confuse me. These days you need a laptop and lots of expensive software to even diagnose half the problems. Bring back carbs! ------------- Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel. |
Posted By: RossM6/635
Date Posted: 04-June-2004 at 22:32
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