Whilst at the Rockingham 'Better Driving Day', I took advantage of an offer of a free assessment of my driving offered by the local branch of the Institute of Advanced Motorists (apparently only eleven attendees at Rockingham took up the challenge).   I was mostly marked 'above average' and only 'met the standard' in a few areas--driving position, lane discipline and courtesy.  Fortunately I didn't get any 'below average' markings, but I had an interesting discussion with the assessor on some areas.

Maintaining progress: I was told off for being TOO SLOW.  I was in a 60 zone and only doing about 52 mph.  Apparently one should drive to the speed limit of conditions allow.  So when we got to a 70 zone I showed him 70mph in second gear to make up for it  : .

Wheel control: Interestingly, allowing the steering wheel to slide through your hands on the return IS acceptable, but only if the examiner is confident that you retain friction control on the wheel.

Block changes: I was told off for changing down through the gears approaching a roundabout.  Apparently you are supposed to continue in whatever gear (4th in my case), slow down using only the brakes, put your foot on the clutch as you come to a halt, and only then change into the appropriate gear.    I told the assessor I thought that was crazy.  

Elbows on window frame: I asked about this and was told it was a 'no no'.  Thinking about if afterwards I now realise I tend to put my right elbow on the frame when I'm changing gear with my left hand.  This means the maximum pivot point for my arm has changed from being potentially my shoulder and is now the elbow.  By doing this I consider I have better control.

Overall an interesting experience, and one I might follow up.

Tim

James, your local coordinators number is in your in box.

Tim

I doubt you were told off !!        advised perhaps.

It is a comletely different driving system from the one your normally use, and have become comfortable with.

I dont like all of it, and there isnt really any point in arguing it bit by bit, overall its good, although I think some of it is outdated, as per the "overlapping" gear changes we discussed at rockingham ( the old stalwarts dont agree with me though), although non overlapping gear changes do force you to plan ahead more, and it is a good disipline to learn, I dont use it everyday.

If you decide to do the course, (and I hope you do), you will "have" to drive to that system to take and pass the test.

After that...your choice.

Most people seem to take the bits they think are good, and combine them with their own style....me included....but dont tell them I said that !!!

I think it has made me more aware, and that cant be a bad thing.

All I can suggest is you try it.

And to all the young loonies out there, try using the advanced system on a twisty "B" road, then tell me 100 plus down a motorway is more exciting !!

 If there is one good thing to come out of this topic, and taking an Advanced assessment drive, its making drivers Think about what they do, when they drive.Hardly anyone ever questions Why they do this or that?So you may feel that you are a good driver,and comments made to you by an IAM observer, dont really apply to you, but-- perhaps a couple more points were good enough to make you change your thinking or method and which seems to help you.So a positive result.Nigel said we tend to take the things we like, thats human nature.its also the reason why one wants to be better at something than the next person , and if by passing a test improves our chances of staying alive, and out of trouble on the roads, its got to be the way to go.We dont All agree with the advice given, and slowly changes in attitude and thinking are taking place, both in the IAM, as well as us.WE can learn from each other.           

                                           SAFETYFAST                                                                                                

thepits wrote: Nigel wrote: It is a comletely different driving system from the one your normally use, and have become comfortable with. I dont like all of it, and there isnt really any point in arguing it bit by bit, overall its good, although I think some of it is outdated, as per the "overlapping" gear changes we discussed at rockingham ( the old stalwarts dont agree with me though), although non overlapping gear changes do force you to plan ahead more, and it is a good disipline to learn, I dont use it everyday. If you decide to do the course, (and I hope you do), you will "have" to drive to that system to take and pass the test. After that...your choice. ... But isn't that the crunch? "It's your choice?" It's like taking your driving test, on the day you do what the instructor/examiner says and pass, and then you do your own thing! I've always had the impression that all these courses - police training included - are not always up to date - they are only good in parts. "Must not use gears to slow down?" Why not?? I've always done it, especially at roundabouts, slip into the gap, don't stop, anticipate. Good driving come from experience. I'm sure that these courses can help the new driver, but to us 'oldies' I wonder?

Try it and let me know !!!

skull wrote: i cant believe people need to take advanced anything . i drive way ahead of where i am on the road and take note of everthing in my field of vision and beyond/ behind. ive been driving cars . lorries since i was 17 and riding motorbikes since i was 16 leagel wise. common sense helps a lot. and to contradict myself , yes people should have to take advanced lessons a little story... i was driving a van last november with a 19 year old with me who had been banned for speeding before his 1st year was up, i asked him what he could see while we was driving ,, his answer was a car in front ,,, i said how many and he said 1... there was 3 cars a lorry on our side , 2 cars coming towards us on the other lane , a person on a push bike on the pavement and 2 more walking on the other side . is this why our insurance is so expensive, looks like it to me .

And for the rest of us mere mortals there are advanced driving lessons !!!!!!!

Hello Tim

I think I was that blasted! Observer.  I remember the discussion we had on the drive, and I was impressed with your overall driving.  One has to understand that there is a system to drive to for the advanced driving test.  I will go along with Nigel in saying that I do not agree with everything that is included, but as an Observer I need to stick to the basics.

I would also say it is common practice for people on their first drive with an IAM Observer for them to drive below the speed limit, as they may be nervous and wanting to be on their best behaviour.  It only takes one comment that they are not making progress for this to change.  So long as the conditions allow.

For those considering the possibility of taking the advanced course, please keep an open mind and I am sure you will enjoy the experience.  We have had people on the course aged 19 to 82.  Some drive 50000 miles a year, some drive from home to school only.  I wouldn't say I was the best driver in the world despite taking my test, BUT I know a hell of a lot more about what other drivers are doing on the road, I control my car better and I enjoy driving a lot more than I did.  Although I have tried to persuade my wife into allowing me to buy a car similar to Tim's (excuse my ignorance about which model it is), with no success.

Richard

Zmurf wrote: Whilst at the Rockingham 'Better Driving Day', I took advantage of an offer of a free assessment of my driving offered by the local branch of the Institute of Advanced Motorists (apparently only eleven attendees at Rockingham took up the challenge).   I was mostly marked 'above average' and only 'met the standard' in a few areas--driving position, lane discipline and courtesy.  Fortunately I didn't get any 'below average' markings, but I had an interesting discussion with the assessor on some areas. Maintaining progress: I was told off for being TOO SLOW.  I was in a 60 zone and only doing about 52 mph.  Apparently one should drive to the speed limit of conditions allow.  So when we got to a 70 zone I showed him 70mph in second gear to make up for it  : . Wheel control: Interestingly, allowing the steering wheel to slide through your hands on the return IS acceptable, but only if the examiner is confident that you retain friction control on the wheel. Block changes: I was told off for changing down through the gears approaching a roundabout.  Apparently you are supposed to continue in whatever gear (4th in my case), slow down using only the brakes, put your foot on the clutch as you come to a halt, and only then change into the appropriate gear.    I told the assessor I thought that was crazy.   Elbows on window frame: I asked about this and was told it was a 'no no'.  Thinking about if afterwards I now realise I tend to put my right elbow on the frame when I'm changing gear with my left hand.  This means the maximum pivot point for my arm has changed from being potentially my shoulder and is now the elbow.  By doing this I consider I have better control. Overall an interesting experience, and one I might follow up. Tim

lancelotII wrote: I think one of the issues I have always had with any of these sort of courses, is that you have to drive in a particualr way to pass the test. That to me seems wrong. The excercise should be in how good are your observation, anticipation and driving skills (which ever manner you use), not whether you perform a specific method when approaching a roundabout etc. It's like heel and toe, some can do it, some can't. But as I understand it, this technique is frowned upon. Again, don't agree with that, I can drive my car far more smoothly employing heel and toe than not. I suppose it's a bit like the Jimmy Hendrix thing, I bet if he had turned up at his guitar tutor playing his right handed fender upside down, they would have said "you'll never be able to play a note, son.... How wrong could they be.......

I think some people take this stuff too literally.

YES you do have to drive to a system to pass the test, but its no different from anything else with an "exam/test" at the end, there is a sylabus.

Once youve passed, you are a free spirit, you then put what you have learnt into your own driving pattern.

This isnt for everyone, what bothers me the most is the people who think they are so good, nothing applies to them, I'm sure it has happened, but will be quite rare, if people are that good, just take the test, dont bother with the tuition, then enjoy what benefits there are from having done so.

If everyone drove to one of the advanced systems, there would be very very few accidents, if everyone lived to the bible (there are other religous books available !!) there would be very little crime.

Of course in real life, neither is going to happen.

In my humble opinion anything thats helps people become more aware of others on the road has got to be a good thing, and thats what this system, and the others are about,  precission vehicle control and good observation.

No matter how long you have been doing anything, let alone driving, there is always something else you can learn, and people are to be applauded, not mocked for trying to better themselves.

It is quite amusing to see posts on here regarding the image of the IAM, with all these excellent drivers in BMWs on here, they are rather living up to the arrogant image that mark of car has.

Well i am signed up and will give it a go. I have already completed and passed one advanced driving course and have done a single seater racing course. IAM next on the agenda.

The point however in this thread seems to be missed. I believe i am a pretty good driver, but i want to be better that why i am doing the course and that the reason why anybody should do any driving course full stop. And if you have to consider driving and or adapt your driving style then so be it.

I am with Nigel on this one

In reply to LancelotII, I think the fact that you mention observation and forward planning in your post means that you have the skills necessary for advanced driving.  What happens a lot of the time are these areas are missed by a large number of drivers and hopefully that's where advanced motoring can help.  Don't get hung up on the specifics, the principles of passing the 'test' are that your driving has to be safe, smooth and progressive.  How you do this and what system you follow is up to you.  So long as you plan your driving and adapt to the situations that presents safely, does it really matter how you did it and in what order?  In my humble opinion the answer is no.

Regards

Richard

 Agreed Richard.The fact that someone wishes to Improve their standard is the most important point.They are saying I can Improve.This is the first step forward.You may not agree with Roadcraft, nobody said its carved in stone or Perfection.Its the opportunity to learn some new things , you may not have had the chance to do before.Whats the Prob.?

                                          SAFETY( I Did ) FAST

Skull

Until retesting becomes a reality, rather than just an idea, all I, and people like me can do is to encourage others as best we can.

I dont know much about the other three systems, but the IAM is a charity, and all the ground staff are voluntary.

At my level, it only means I give up a couple of hours a week, to guide someone through the system to test level, Richard Glasspool will do more hours.

As with most of the posts so far on this forum (on this subject), you make some good points, but comments like " I cant believe people need advanced lessons", arent the most helpful, especially when you then contradict yourself.

If you are as good as you think, passing any of the advanced tests should be a doddle for you, and if you care enough to want to try and do something about the driving standard on our roads, then you are very welcome to join us.

If the IAM system bothers you, have a look at RoSPA, DIAmond, or the RAC systems.

Skull

I think we have gone as far as we can with this.

Enjoy your driving.

rglasspool wrote: I think I was that blasted! Observer.

Hi Richard, yes it was you.  I hope I wasn't too critical--as I wrote at the end, "Overall an interesting experience, and one I might follow up." 

I appreciate the IAM needs to stick to a 'system', however I was interested in what others thought, especially of the failure to change down when approaching a roundabout.  I found an interesting quote from the ROSPA advanced motoring, "you may be required to block change when slowing in order to maintain your flexibility. With too high a gear engaged it can lead to an unacceptable amount of coasting."

The feedback on this forum was quite mild compared to the furore that was unleashed on the Z forum at http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1079 - http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1079

Tim

thepits wrote: Good driving come from experience. I'm sure that these courses can help the new driver, but to us 'oldies' I wonder?

Animal lovers look away NOW.

Find an old dog, walk past it every morning for a week and as you do kick it. what happens when you approach it the followng week? it bites or it runs... old dogs new tricks? can! Educate Pork? Cannot!!

Animal lovers its' safe to look now.

I've been driving for 16 years, I used to drive between 50 & 70k miles a year now it's probably more like 15k. Many of my friends and colleagues are shocked to hear that I have (and always have had) a clean licence as many consider that I drive too fast, too often. My argument with them is that it's not just a matter of speed but a question of appropriate speed for the location and conditions.

That said I want/need to attend more Better Driving Days, I want to do the IAM test because I know there is still much I can do to improve my driving from where it is today.

My tuppence worth

 Derek agree with sentiments.after 40 years of trying to make my perception of Progress, one CAN learn new tricks, IF they are practical!!!!

WE, know from our experience, what is good or otherwise.18 years ago , and with teachings from Excellent Instructors inc pro,s advanced high performance driving, Circuits inc Nurburgring, and Ex Met Officers, who said the shuffle wheel tecnique WAS the Biz.I put all this in to practice one Sunday June morn, on the M25 .Dry, Visability 2-3 Miles, 07-30 ish, light traffic, South Mimms going on Potters Bar.

  IN centre lane, carrageway rising upwards, nothing behind mile back +, and in front rising, 69 MPH =110 KPH LH BMW, reach top of rise on carrage-on Right Eye-Flicker of GREEN shadow-ITS A   CAR-Coming thru a Central reservation So Called Crash barrier- THIS WAS the times of the Gaps in barrier to allow Emergency recovery in case of accidents.IN NANO Milliseconds , I turned the wheel to the left, Hit the Armco on  the Hard shoulder, and a BRIDGE parapit behind it, then went 1/4 of a mile down the road like that ball in PIN -BALL wizard.TOTAL Write OFF.I walked away-Cmon this was a BMW.NOT because we used the Shuffle.( Bet this was recorded as a SPEED related Accident).So-- Derek , I Grant you your Wish, Complementary Course With The Good people Of IAM-say which region is ok for you, I -with our expert Nigel, will arrange your course for you. 1 condition!!! you have to write a short article on your Good or--- adventure.PS--My 2 Jackie Russels are looking out for YOU -DONT even think about it !!!!

                                          SAFETYFAST

John

The course was meant for you, you horror lol

Just another thought John........expert

ex = has been

spurt = drip under pressure.

When would you like YOUR course to begin ???

Zmurf wrote: rglasspool wrote: I think I was that blasted! Observer.  Hi Richard, yes it was you.  I hope I wasn't too critical--as I wrote at the end, "Overall an interesting experience, and one I might follow up."  I appreciate the IAM needs to stick to a 'system', however I was interested in what others thought, especially of the failure to change down when approaching a roundabout.  I found an interesting quote from the ROSPA advanced motoring, "you may be required to block change when slowing in order to maintain your flexibility. With too high a gear engaged it can lead to an unacceptable amount of coasting." The feedback on this forum was quite mild compared to the furore that was unleashed on the Z forum at http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1079 - http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1079 Tim

Tim

I've just read the posts on the thread you gave.

I think they were quite encouraging.

Hope to see you at another event soon

Boy its gone quite in here...from a certain quarter down in Aylesbury.

Paging Mr Safe, will Mr safe please contact reception lol

Hello John

I got through the observer stuff this morning, so I will get an associate soon.

It also means I can hopefully do assesments at club events whenever I'm present !!

I'll be the one in the corner they are all avoiding.....even more than usual lol

 Congratulations Great News, NOW!!! ALL form an orderly Line to sign up with MR Nigel, Central Regions Finest.

                            SAFETYFAST

Well done mate.

Nice one Nig - I'm a little far to have you as my observer though.

Best

Jon

 BUT!!!!, Nigel,s got IAM Family-And WE are Nigels FAMILY!!!! SO, No problem with observers, Family will look after Family.

                                         SAFETY(Family)FAST

B 7 VP wrote:  So-- Derek , I Grant you your Wish, Complementary Course With The Good people Of IAM-say which region is ok for you, I -with our expert Nigel, will arrange your course for you. 1 condition!!! you have to write a short article on your Good or--- adventure.PS--My 2 Jackie Russels are looking out for YOU -DONT even think about it !!!!                                           SAFETYFAST

Thanks for the offer, I'm currently based in Dublin and don't get out much - other than the quarterly dash to Bordeaux to make sure the house is still there - I am very inerested though, Is there anyone in the Emerald isle that can show me the error of my ways? How long would it take? I'm somtimes around the Forest of Dean but not often & not normally for that long....

Congrats Nigel

IAM are not too far away from you in Dublin, and elsewhere.No good you trying to toddle off for a tipple in Bordeaux.

                                       SAFETYFAST

kbannon http://www.irishadvancedmotorists.ie/ - www.irishadvancedmotorists.ie [/QUOTE wrote: KB, are these lads part of the BMW club deal too? B 7 VP wrote: IAM are not too far away from you in Dublin, and elsewhere.No good you trying to toddle off for a tipple in Bordeaux.                                        SAFETYFAST KB, are these lads part of the BMW club deal too? [QUOTE=B 7 VP] IAM are not too far away from you in Dublin, and elsewhere.No good you trying to toddle off for a tipple in Bordeaux.                                        SAFETYFAST

I'd consider it rude not too, just a shame I don't get down there as often as I'd like..... still, guess where I'm off to this weekend

 confusion rains !!!!!! is someone waiting for a Question to be answered REF IAM????????? if so, whats the ????

                                         SAFETYFAST

KB, you were right, I just got a bit carried away with my 'quoting'. I Could indeed check the link that you kindly sent thru' (probably so I could check it) I was just trying to short circuit things as usual.... solly for any confuddlement caused.

Now, where was I?

Anyone know who would be the nearest observer to me in the central/Falkirk area of Scottie land?

MB

    Jon,   There are 3-4  around your area.Best call your Scottish Region chairman-James Westwood , he now has the up to date IAM listings.

                                               SAFETYFAST

M BLUR wrote:   Anyone know who would be the nearest observer to me in the central/Falkirk area of Scottie land? MB

Well done son, nice to see you going for it, any problems give wendy a shout, he should be able to help, otherwise feel free to come back to me, and I'll sort it.

Will do dad.. forgot Wendy is in the 'club'...

I'm sure he can give me a few tips as well..

Nigel,

Just sorted out my booking with my local area. Now all i have to do is my initial assesment drive.

I'm a bit nervous now. I have always considered myself a good driver. I will soon find out if my perceptions of my own ability are correct.

I will keep you posted

James

I take it getting the old girl sideways is out of the question then.

Sohlman wrote: Nigel, Just sorted out my booking with my local area. Now all i have to do is my initial assesment drive. I'm a bit nervous now. I have always considered myself a good driver. I will soon find out if my perceptions of my own ability are correct. I will keep you posted James

James

Dont worry mate, I had exactly the same feelings.

My observer was a lovely lady, who in a few weeks managed to take my driving apart and put it back together again without making me feel silly at all.

Overall she didnt change too much, but what she did change made a world of difference.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Just waiting for news from Peter and blur now !!

B 7 VP wrote:  your observer is also apprehensive, can YOU be trusted, Not to scare the daylights out of them??.So if you both relax to drive/observe as you usually do, it will be a good drive for both.

Well had a nice chat with the Local guy and we are arranging my first drive. He then wanted to know what car i drive and on finding out i had a six he reckened that the observers would be queing up to give me a run as it's not often there is a proper car being used (His words).  I guess if that the case i can pick the prettyist  to observe me.

errrrrrrr I thought you were doing the skid pan stuff, thats why you wanted the list !!!!!

Or are you just keeping an eye on me ????? lol

I had my first drive today. Was absolutely peeing it down. Came out of it quite well.

They pulled me up on handbrake as i don't and have never used it and to much use of gears when comming into junctions. They also said i need to work a little on my steering as i am not used to feeding the wheel properly, but that will come. Everything else was fine and he reckens a couple of drives and i'll be ready for the test. I had two people observing me one who is the chief observeer and the other who is being trained. Was a bit nervous, but tried to ignore them and drive normally. Was much better than i was exspecting and they are a nice bunch of people.

Have already signed up to one of there skid pan days with oil and water and a rwd car with bald tyres. Great

Well done James

A couple of runs then ready for the test ???

Your better than me then, I had 5 runs, pre test check, 2 runs, then test.

I took my first candidate out yesterday for her first run, the assesmant jobby.

So start for real next week, she didnt burst into tears, or knee me in the vitals ( the wife was suggesting one of the two would happen as I'm generally regarded as having missed my call for the diplomatic corps ! ).

Don't think i could be a good observer as when i was working on my girlfriends driving i had little patience, but i suppose it's easier when you are working with someone you are less close to.

James

I've completed an IAM advanced driving course up to the required standard but I was unfairly barred from taking my test.

It highlights the sheer snobbery of the whole organisation and really emphasises their holier-than-thou attitude - let's just say that it wouldn't look good for them  if a driver could be reported for a serious driving offence to join a course and pass the IAM test whilst waiting to see if they are going to be prosecuted for such.  In this country I always believed that a person was innocent until proven guilty.

The IAM don't want people who have "fallen off the wagon" so to speak, they only want the people who are angels to start with - it's not driver improvement, it's maintenance of standards.

Oh yes, and the idea of fumbling for gearchanges whilst crawling up to a hazard after wearing your pads and discs out instead of using more sensible and controlled engine braking caused a lot of long and heated arguments in our IAM group, especially when they state that "engine braking should be reserved for steep hill descents and icy conditions"  erm, why would that be?  because the car is more stable and under control?

Refused a test ??

What on earth had you done, or been accused of ?

I've not heard of them refusing anyone, I've got 3 points for speeding.

From what I've seen they would rather help someone who has fallen foul of the motoring laws ( like I had ) than leave them to do it again.

If I can help let me know, you also have a grade one traffic plod amongst your ranks up there, he may be able to help also.

see here for the whole sorry debacle....  its not big and it's not clever

im "frink" in these posts...

http://www.traffic-answers.com/forum/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=74 - http://www.traffic-answers.com/forum/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=74

i couldn't take my test because they said i was waiting for a court date - meaning if it went unfavourably then it would look bad for the group.   but the chairman of the group did write a nice letter that was given to the court, it did help.  i was always upfront, at the first meeting (the one where they try and encourage people to sign up, although i already had joined via the net, there was a bit on the enrolment form that asked if you had any points on your licence or pending convictions - i could have kept shtum but decided to ask their advice, there was much chin-scratching and hmming, culminating in them saying that IAM head office will be consulted and ill get word back in a week or two.  i attended all the meetings and the supervised drives, and a few more drives after that with a local observer, then the chairman to get up to standard - but disappointingly, they couldnt put me forward for test for that reason - i said "well i joined directly, not through elgin group... therefore i could put in for the test myself?"  "doesnt matter, theyve been notified..." damn!  after it was all over he called and asked me how it went, but he was meant to get back to me to see if they would approve me being tested - guess what?  never did.   im not knocking them too much as the guy took time to write a very supportive letter as stated already

god reading that back i must sound like a right hooligan, im not, honest!!

i had 3 points for speeding back in '98 (for 70 in a 60 at midnight on the A96 in the middle of nowhere with no other cars about for miles and miles... apart from the police car of course....

Ok Stephen

I have already contacted the IAM.

They are looking into it for me, although I'm an observer I'm fairly new, and only passed the test myself last year.

I have spoken to the Scottish people tonight, there are rules governing what points etc you can have on your licence before they will allow you to take a test, IAM HQ are going to send them to me, and I will put them on here, this sort of thing is dealt with before a candidate gets to me.

If you are facing a ban, you cannot take the test for 12 months AFTER you get your licence back is the worst case, so they tell me.

I'll go and read the link, and get back to you.

Stephen

I've read the link, and boy the whole thing seems a bit iffy to me, but,....... on the subject of the IAM, I think ( but will confirm in the next few days) if you have 8 or more points on your licence your test application will be reffered to the senior examiner, and in your case he obviously decided against you, dont forget he will either be a serving or retired police examiner.

Do you still want to take the test ?

If so would you like me to follow this up for you ?

I now have the criteria for taking an IAM test, this information came from my regional chap, unfortunately I have to wait until I have permission from IAM HQ to post it on here.

Secrets and politics.......dont you just love it ? !

I would still like to take the test, i think ill need a bit of a refresher though (one good habit that stuck with me is that it now feels all wrong to cross my hands when steering... lol)  ive kept all my documentation, the roadcraft manual, the highway code, the "how to pass your advanced driving test" official book, i even copied the roadcraft video tape to DVD -you can imagine my disappointment when told that "secrets and politics" stopped play

thank you for spending time to find out for me Nigel, I would like to know if I'm doomed from the start before i sign up for a fresh course ;)(my membership would have lapsed by now i reckon)

I will follow this up for you Stephen

I was, and still am dissapointed at the snobbish attitude shown by The IAM on this subject, and I say that as one of their observers.

I have 3 points and apparently I could have been refused, (although unlikely at 3, they normally get excited if you have seven or more ).

As far as I'm concerned, and I have to say the people in my group I have spoken too about this tend to agree, as long as a court deems you fit to drive on the day of the test, you should be allowed to take it, but alas that doesnt seem to be the case.

To me it should be assesssed on attitude,you have only one offence, but nine points, and you are clearly showing "good" attitude by still wanting to do the test.

I have read the thread you posted, now compare this to see our "unjust" legal system.

A senior high ranking police officer from Manchester ( he is in charge of road safety for that area, and is constantly shoving that stupid "speed kills" message down people throats ), was caught on the new M6 toll road driving at 104 mph. Now all credit to the police and/or scamera partnership that got him to court rather than letting him go with the secret handshake.

He had the nerve to stand up in court and say he considered he was driving safetly, he got six points and a £450 fine, and would still be eligble to take the advanced test under the rules that stopped you, on top of this he is probably one of our examiners.

I think Killian posted the link to the news story on this.

Stephen, I have pmed you to get your personal details, so I can try and get you sorted.

I will do my best I assure you.

I'm just on 3 pts so hopefully no worries.. I haven't dropped this Nigel just not had anytime to book my first drive.

Rgds

Fair enough Jon

It took me years to actually do it, something I was "always" going to do, just never did.

You must be a fair driver James, two one and a half hour sessions.

Have you done the defensive driving stuff in the past ?

It was a new concept to me, before this I regarded myself as going into battle !

Also are you doing it in a manual ?

The drives in my area are 1 hour jobbies and i have done one other advanced course in the past. I learn't to drive basing my driving to the Roadcraft police manual.

I will do the test in the six which is a manual car

James

That will help mate.

The airforce taught me to drive, can you point that landrover around the airfield son ?

Good off you go then, heres your licence.

Its suprising how things change, my brothers an L test instructor, the hoops the present day kids have to "jump" through are much tougher.