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Another Sick Six

Printed From: Bavarian-Board.co.uk - BMW Owners Discussion Forum
Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW 6 Series
Forum Discription: This forum will deal with any issues on the BMW 6 Series (E24, E63 & E64)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4765
Printed Date: 10-May-2024 at 16:41


Topic: Another Sick Six
Posted By: bigfub
Subject: Another Sick Six
Date Posted: 30-December-2003 at 10:10

Hi everyone!

Up until recently my beloved 6 has been running fine.

However, she recently developed a problem when all power was lost whilst driving and she would not restart. One cold wait for the AA and a tow later, I have recharged the battery and although I can now get the engine running, she will not tick over and stalls as soon as I lift off the throttle.

Any ideas? (Preferably not expensive ones as I have just moved house and my budget has understandably shrunk).

 

Stuart



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i



Replies:
Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 30-December-2003 at 15:02

I had a similar problem with my six not so long ago. Replaced just about everything and most of it was not needed. I would suspect it is either the fuel pump relays of which there are two you will need. One has 4 pin the other has 5. Or the pulse  genrators which are sensors that mount onto the side of the engine and gearbox bell housing. These feed the ecu with information about temperature revs etc. If these don't fix it then cost implications go up. You will then have to look at idle control valves, airflow meters and ECU's.

  • Fule Pump relays aprox £5-10 although BMW will charge you £40
  • Pulse generators approx £35 each 2 needed
  • Air flow meter £50-75 s/h, £130 reconditiones, £200 new.
  • ECU approx £150 s/h and £300+ new

I would have a chat with munich legends who sorted my car out and will be able to supply you with those various parts, Give Barney a tinckle on 07825 740456



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Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events


Posted By: AndyS
Date Posted: 02-January-2004 at 10:01

Sohlman's started celebrating early!

Munich Legends are on 01825 740456 (East Sussex, just south of East Grinstead).

Glad they managed to sort your car Sohlman. They're handy people to know.

 



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AndyS
Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.

http://www.photostick.co.uk/view-933_BaurSig1.jpg" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 05-January-2004 at 08:41

Thanks for the info guys, I will have a look at the connections this coming weekend and keep you informed.

Shame about Munich Legends, I only moved from East Grinstead area last year. Still, thank heavens for the telephone.



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 08-January-2004 at 11:04

OK,

Time for an update. I had some time on my hands yesterday, so thought I would start her up and keep her running. Once the engine had warmed up, she was ticking over quite nicely.

First thing to do is try those pulse generators I guess.



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 08-January-2004 at 22:22

Mine would run fine untill it warmed up after about 20 mins then the power would cut if i tried to apply any throttle and it would not tickover. It would just die, and while in the process of dieing it would backfire and send 2 feet flames out of the exhaust. The thing is it was not completely consistant and i got recovered on two journeys. I did not make a third and spent 6 weeks fidling around before it was well enough to get it to a specialist.

I would recomend making sure you are well and truley AA'd up. Book it in to a specialist, set out early and hope you get there. If not phone the AA and get a tow there. Let the specialist know and leave it with them. Then you can go back when it is fixed and enjoy your baby without any fafing about.



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Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 09-January-2004 at 10:29
Thanks Sohlman, any recommendations for a specialist in the Northampton area?

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 21-January-2004 at 10:43
Spoke to a good friend of mine who is a mechanic and explained all the problems to him and he has suggested replacing the alternator. Should have one by the weekend and as long as I work out how to change it, I may be back on the road soon. (Thankfully!)

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 27-January-2004 at 00:11
If it starts and runs, it won't be either of the relays. The four pin one is for the fuel pump, the other for the DME (injectors etc). The two sensors on the bellhousing are for the crank position (TDC) and engine speed. If any of these are faulty, it just will not run. Air flow meter is possible, as is idle control valve but don't be tempted by a recon air flow meter as they're rubbish (Bosch excepted).


Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 27-January-2004 at 12:22

Originally posted by Andyboy Andyboy wrote:

If it starts and runs, it won't be either of the relays. The four pin one is for the fuel pump, the other for the DME (injectors etc). The two sensors on the bellhousing are for the crank position (TDC) and engine speed. If any of these are faulty, it just will not run. Air flow meter is possible, as is idle control valve but don't be tempted by a recon air flow meter as they're rubbish (Bosch excepted).

 

I hate to correct you on this, but one of my two sensors on the bellhousing went on my car and it would still run, that was untill it got hot, then it would intermitantly work giving the ecu false readings resulting in a car that was running so rich you could not get a CO2 reading. I am also told that a faulty relay in some circumstances can work intermitantly too.

 

On fixing your car up it might be worth giving Frits bits a call as they really understand the six. Call them on 01823 669425. I have my car booked in with them to have some uprated brakes fitted in Feb



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Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events


Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 27-January-2004 at 23:18


Eh??? Who told you that? Munich Leg Ends??
The sensors won't affect anything on the mixture side. One operates on a trigger on the flywheel to tell the ECU when the engine is at TDC. The other counts the ring gear teeth to determine engine speed.
Mixture readings are taken from the coolant temperature sensor on the thermostat housing. The ECU also takes readings from the throttle position sensor. Source: Robert Bosch - you can feel free to correct him if you like. I believe the guy........



Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 27-January-2004 at 23:43
This reminds me of as problem I had with an old 735i recently, an old Y reg heap. It ran fine and drove for about 15 miles before cutting out intermittently - by that I mean it was jerking badly as if the ignition key was being turned off and back on again. This was the five pin DME relay, but they either work or they don't. The car won't run badly if it's faulty, it'll either run perfectly or not at all.
The only way it could be one of the flywheel sensors is if it's dirt on the timing sensor (I think it's the one farthest from the engine). Dirt builds up on the ends in much the same way as crap builds up on ABS sensors. If the engine runs after a fashion, it won't be the timing sensor that's failed completely. Excessive dirt buid up might cause the ECU to become confused and intermttently advance or retard the timing causing backfires. They are screwed into the bellhousing side by side and held in by allen bolts. Also check the connections where they plug into the engine loom in the starter motor area.
From what I remember, Highlines used a different (E34) system where one sensor on the crank front pulley measured both TDC and engine speed - a much more reliable system.
Owning a 6 Series is like repeatedly slamming a door on your hand only more painful. I've been there and done it. Don't you just love old cars?


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 28-January-2004 at 08:29
Love 'em to pieces. Which is what mine will be in this weekend as the alternator turned up this morning. Time to get grease under the nails again...

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 28-January-2004 at 10:17
Well I hope that cures it! Let us know - or the Samaritans........


Posted By: Sohlman
Date Posted: 29-January-2004 at 00:13

In hindsight i think the problems with mine stemmed from having the clutch changes by a garage in kent that will forever be nameless. They must have squashed the sensor on the bell housing when taking the box in and out and this called a loose connection on the sensor. After i had changed everthing i went for sensors and one snapped off in the bell housing. Could not get a drill to it to get it out so had to drop the box to drill out the sheered sensor. Again it was working to a fashion, but not as Munich intended



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Sunday 10th July Brooklands Sharkfest and Big Coupe Day. http://635csi.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ - Coupe Events


Posted By: colin fitzgeral
Date Posted: 30-January-2004 at 15:38
had that on mine, something believe it or not to do with electrics, I'll check it out and let you know, in the meantime, how ya doing for petrol, cannot get any LRP all gone down south any tips


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 15-February-2004 at 10:34

 It's Alive!! Replacement alternator went in yesterday and with a newly charged battery, she fired up first time and was ticking over nicely.

Now all I have to do is sort out the new electrical fault where the driver's side indicators remain permanently on without any flashing...

Any ideas?



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Big Vern
Date Posted: 15-February-2004 at 10:45
Indicator prime suspect has to be relay followed by a bad earth, try changing the bulbs as well.


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 15-February-2004 at 14:45

Vern,

This is where I have my stupid head on but which is the indicator relay?

I can rebuild a PC blindfolded but I still need help with car electrics.

Cheers!



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 15-February-2004 at 15:23
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

Vern,


This is where I have my stupid head on but which is the indicator relay?


I can rebuild a PC blindfolded but I still need help with car electrics.


Cheers!



Indicator relay is located somewhere in the steering column....

More work with a screwdriver in a confined space. Enjoy. Or hire a jockey who's also a dab hand at electrics....

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 18-February-2004 at 17:43

Aha!

Relay is on its way and thought I'd invest in some replacement grilles as well. Mine are looking a bit worn...

Cheers!



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 18-February-2004 at 22:31
Replacement kidney grilles shouldn't be more than about 50 quid a pair....

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 19-February-2004 at 13:02
Makes all the difference though...

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 19-February-2004 at 19:04
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

Makes all the difference though...


Oh, absolutely. And make sure you keep them buffed with Autosol metal polish....

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 19-February-2004 at 19:41
Originally posted by Horsetan Horsetan wrote:

Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

Makes all the difference though...


Oh, absolutely. And make sure you keep them buffed with Autosol metal polish....
Nice new tube ready to use...

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 20-February-2004 at 10:28

Anybody know the part number for the indicator relay on my 86 635?

I've got a screwdriver and I am not afraid to use it but this could save me time.



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 21-February-2004 at 12:33
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

Anybody know the part number for the indicator relay on my 86 635?


I've got a screwdriver and I am not afraid to use it but this could save me time.



Can't remember exact BMW part no. for the flasher relay, but Halfords have a compatible version, ref. no. HFU 203. It's about 12 quid, I think.

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 21-February-2004 at 13:53

Thanks for the info. Quick trip down to Halfords is in order methinks...

This could mean we'll be back on the road by next weekend!



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 21-February-2004 at 15:17
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

Thanks for the info. Quick trip down to Halfords is in order methinks...


This could mean we'll be back on the road by next weekend!



...and if you're towing a trailer or caravan, HFU 206 is the one you'll need...

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 03-March-2004 at 07:45

The saga continues...

Fitted the relay and beamed with joy at the anticipation of being back on the road at last. Unfortunately, I decided to turn the alarm back on in the engine bay and managed to blow the relay again.

Back to Halfords and this time the alarm stays off.



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 03-March-2004 at 11:34
This is a bit like my own Cobra alarm which hasn't been used for years, as it was found to drain the battery almost overnight...

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 03-March-2004 at 15:12

Ok, now this is really getting annoying.

The alarm is off and I have changed the relay again but the right side indicators are still on permanently and there's no "clicking" from the relay when selecting a right turn.



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 03-March-2004 at 16:04

To make matters worse, she won't even start now. A fully charged battery but turning the key only gets a click from the engine bay and a very low electrical buzz. Doesn't even try to turn over.

Going to sulk in the corner for a while now...



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Andyboy
Date Posted: 03-March-2004 at 18:52
Look in Yellow Pages under scrap metal. You want 'cars collected free'.

Show that b*st*rd who's Boss.


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 03-March-2004 at 21:27
If you're in London / Home Counties area, I might be able to gallop down and have a look...

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 04-March-2004 at 07:44

Originally posted by Horsetan Horsetan wrote:

If you're in London / Home Counties area, I might be able to gallop down and have a look...

Many thanks for the offer but let me try a new battery and see if that will get her started. If I am still banging my head against a brick wall after that I'll pm you if that's ok?



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 04-March-2004 at 15:03
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

Originally posted by Horsetan Horsetan wrote:

If you're in London / Home Counties area, I might be able to gallop down and have a look...


Many thanks for the offer but let me try a new battery and see if that will get her started. If I am still banging my head against a brick wall after that I'll pm you if that's ok?



Sounds fine.

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 05-March-2004 at 08:45
She starts, she runs but damn me but I can't get rid of that indicator problem, despite being on the 2nd new relay. Might be worthwhile changing the entire indicator unit in the column, good thing there's a GSF in Daventry...

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 05-March-2004 at 12:20
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

She starts, she runs but damn me but I can't get rid of that indicator problem, despite being on the 2nd new relay. Might be worthwhile changing the entire indicator unit in the column, good thing there's a GSF in Daventry...


This is beginning to sound like one of those annoying little short-circuits....

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 05-March-2004 at 17:13

You're not wrong. There's a leak somewhere but no obvious pooling of water. At the moment she's wearing a fetching car cover from Classic Additions and I've put a dehumidifier inside to remove as much moisture as possible.

Things seems to be improving but I'm hoping that swapping the switch and stalk will finish the job. Fingers crossed.



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 05-March-2004 at 18:15
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

You're not wrong. There's a leak somewhere but no obvious pooling of water.....



I also foresee someone finding every electrical contact there is, and brandishing a file or some sandpaper as a cleaning device....

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 11-March-2004 at 13:35
I have the indicator arm and accompanying connections and will soon find out.

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 11-March-2004 at 15:03
OK, so one of the connections is male on the car and on the replacement arm. Photo's by request...

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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i


Posted By: Horsetan
Date Posted: 11-March-2004 at 17:01
Originally posted by bigfub bigfub wrote:

OK, so one of the connections is male on the car and on the replacement arm. Photo's by request...


Let's see the pics, then....

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Posted By: bigfub
Date Posted: 12-March-2004 at 11:36

Will sort it out when I get back home - it's the weekend at last!



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'86 635CSi - Sold
'88 E34 535i



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