Guys

Driving to work this morning, car would have just got up to temperature at this point and the engine management light came on.

Light had previously gone out on engine start up.

Parked the car at usual spot, turned engine off and opened the bonnet, don't really know why as I wasn't expecting to see anything obvious and sure enough there was nowt obvious.

Re-started the engine, light stayed on and there a distinctive wobble from idle and the idle was higher, 750 rpm than the usual 500 rpm idle.  Wobble/slight rough idle soon died away and idled quietly but still high at 750 rpm. 

Air con was not on.  I cannot tell engine temp as there is no temp gauge in the E60.

Local garage will try and diagnose it for me tomorrow afternoon but has anyone got any thoughts on what it might be?

Appart from usual suspects of O2 sensors, crank sensor, cam sensors, MAF, engine temp sensor.......

Car hasn't missed a beat in the 14 months that I have owned it.

Car is 5 years old this month and has done a smudge under 46,000 miles.

Thanks

Andrew

Well this is no time to guess , I think only a diagnos could give help to find it out. It s to much differnet faultys who could give this problem.

I get the yellowlight on my 540 fore 2 weeks ago. Camshaftsensor have indicated 78 times, and becuse it regulates the injektiontiming I get a out of limitregulation on additive adapationvalues on the same bank. I have not notice anything wrong at all. I reset the codes and order e new sensor.

I reset the codes when the engine was running and it shake 2 or 3times and the engine runs smoother then before, when the yellow light is on the engine runs on locked addativevalues

I take out the car fore a hard drive and no codes comes back

When I drive 45 kilometer to BMW in normal speed and rpm to get the sensor, I get new camshaftsfaulty code 3 times on the same rpmlimit as before but dont notice anything wrong at all.

Change the sensor OK after a long weekend trip 900 km.

http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bloggbilder/00016020_s100.jpg - http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bloggbilder/00016020_s100. jpg

http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bloggbilder/00016021_s100.jpg - http://www.autopower.se/galleriet/bloggbilder/00016021_s100. jpg

Thanks

I suspected that it could be anything and that I can't tell what it is until diagnostics.  If I were a betting man I'd bet on a cam sensor....

I suppose I was really after a thought if someone had come across a similar V8 E60 fault.

I've cleared it with the boss to get away early tomorrow pm to get it checked.

Will keep you posted

Andrew

Now at home, light stayed on when started to drive home.  Most faults with my E39 when they first appeared would appear, go away, come back, go away then come back and eventually stay until fixed but this one is obviously persistant.

Handbook says that "exhaust emissions values have deteriorated" so I'm guessing it is a faulty sensor.  I'm not over fuelling as I'm getting good fuel consumption considering the heat, use of air con and towing or all three at once.

If I rev the engine while stationary, the revs drop but only to 1000 rpm and then very slowly drop to 750 rpm and not the 500 rpm usual idle. 

Certainly made he haw difference driving home performance wise, she pulled cleanly and smoothly (and still chuffin' quickly!) to 6,500 rpm but by that time I had exceeded the speed limit in 2nd gear and had to back of a bit, ahem, cough.  

Andrew

Went to local garage.

Their diagnostic machine was able to detect that there was a fault but the machine couldn't read the fault.

They are getting a Diagnostic specialist in on Monday to interogate it further.

Mechanic did say he suspected that it was only running on 7 cylinders due to uneven idle.  When I said I didn't notice a difference in performance he said that I probably wouldn't due to there being 7 still firing fine.  He reckons it is either a coil, plug or injector.  He also said I shouldn't drive it much if there is unburnt fuel coming out of one of the cylinders as the Cats wouldn't like it much!

Car has now started making weird engine bay noise.  Only happens on idle

Noise captured on camera phone so apologies in advance for sound and vision quality.

Video 1 Noise from within engine bay.  At first I thought it was from the area around the belts but I'm not convinced sounds more like from the back of the engine.

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/andrew_rolland/?action=view&current=Enginebaynoise.flv">

Video 2 lets yo hear that the noise goes when engine is revved and it was at this point I heard the engine hit a rev limited which promted video 3.

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/andrew_rolland/?action=view&current=Enginebaynoise2.flv">

Video 3 you can firstly hear the noise which then dissapears as the revs rise and I can't rev it past 5000 rpm.

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/andrew_rolland/?action=view&current=Enginebaynoise3.flv">

Is the noise and lack of rev range due to the above fault?

Andrew

Well shore its not a bird under the plasticcover :)

It could be a drivebelttensiorwheel, waterpump, servopump or something like that. Some intake airleak have a noise like this on M54 if a pipe gets cracks connected to the airfilterbox.

I be shore you notice if you drive on 7 cylinders think your enginge runs fine at all 8 what is possible to hear on the wideos.

And if a coil or plug is defect, the DME close down the petrol to that cylinder just becuse to save the cats,  I think the Mechanic dont know how the DME and fuel system works in a BMW. :)

You should get BMW/Inpa ediabas and an old laptop so you can do your own diagnos it works in BMW cars up to 2004/2005.

I had a poke about after posting the above videos on Friday pm.

On idle after removing all the plastic covers, using a screwdriver to listen the the engine, hear all 8 injectors ticking away which makes me think fuel was going in to all 8 cylinders.  I would agree with Hasso in that the BMW being smart and all would shut off the fuel to one cylinder.  It wasn't a BMW tech/mechanic.

Will wait and see.

Andrew

Garage phoned to say that they have fixed the fault.  They could not see a specific fault in the ECU and cleared the ECU, light went out and took car for drive and to quote the mechanic "that's some scary car". 

Light had not re-appeared.  Mechanic and specialist put it down to just a glitch in the ECU software and that I should just watch and see what happens. 

Will collect the car later and see what's what.

Andrew

Car picked up and drove home fine, think it was slightly smoother than before and idle was no problem.

When in P and revving it, it will still only rev to 5,000 rpm.  Is this normal?  I don't think I have ever revved it when in P to those limits.  Red line on the road when tramping...

Andrew

Hmm

Drove to work this morning.  Car would rev to red line when driving so I guess it's a stationary rev limit thing at 5,000 rpm so that's that worry over.

Engine management light went out and remained out after each time starting so that's that worry over.

Just before I was parking I could hear the noise again that you can hear in the above videos. D'oh!

Parked the car and it was idling like a tractor again.  Rev engine and it's fine and sometime on the revs settling the idle is o.k. other times.

No warning lights on dash.

Anyone got any suggestions?

Coils? Spark plugs?

Andrew

jetsetwilly2000 wrote: Bloody modren cars, could be anything!  But it sounds mechanical to me, so not a plug or coil (at least not directly).  Could be some clever valvey thing that I wouldn't know about, but sounds like a belt tensioner or some other rotating thing packing up.  If it was an old viva I'd say water pump!...

Aye I agree with you, but would that be related to the uneven idle?

Car going back to same garage tomorrow.

On contacting them again today, I was told that they found two fault codes in the ECU yesterday but they could not tell what they meant.  They called local BMW dealer who could not identify the fault codes either.

Car is getting another diagnostic reading done tomorrow so we'll see if any other fresh fault codes appear even though no light is on the dash.

Done a bit of diggin' on t'interweb and I've found a guy who had a X5 (but I'll not hold that against him) with the same symptoms which turned out to be a spark plug at fault.

Andrew

Light came back on last night.

Back to garage.

Fault codes obtained 32 3 27 2D and 32 3 27 2C.  Means nothing to the diagnostic machine the garage is using.

Don't suppose anyone knows the fault codes do they?

Car is booked into Harry Fairbairn (Glasgow) to look at it on Tuesday.  Got a works van for Friday to Monday.

Thanks

Andrew

Modern technology ay?

Hope you get it sorted once and for all!

As a side note, the Mercedes Sprinter vans don't rev over 3000rpm when not in gear so it's a limiter designed to protect the engine I would think it's the same in your case. As long as it revs when you are thrashing it in gear then all seems fine, I'd not worry.

Good luck with the car.

Mike

The trouble with modern cars is that they are so damn complicated that fixing a problem like this requires all the proper diagnostic equipment plus a healthy dose of experience.

I wouldn't even know where to start with an E60. One for a good speciallist IMO.

Stone-IslandV8 wrote: Probably not it at all but sounds remarkably similar to the noise I got with the knackered PCV.

A faulty PCV would cause the engine to produce exhaust gasses which are not the norm, hence put the light on in the first place.  You might be on to something Sir.

To me it sounds like an air noise rather than a rotating part.  The source of the noise is also difficult to pin point.  It might be from the back of the engine, where I think the PCV or equivalent E60 bit is located or it sounds like it is coming from the front by the belts.

Andrew

Peter Fenwick wrote: The trouble with modern cars is that they are so damn complicated that fixing a problem like this requires all the proper diagnostic equipment plus a healthy dose of experience. I wouldn't even know where to start with an E60. One for a good speciallist IMO.

Yeah you are quite right.  Going to BMW on Tuesday.  I'm working this weekend so I can't get much of a poke about it. 

I'm sure the PCV is buried away beind the inlet manifold about 30 mm in front of the bulkhead making access tricky......

Andrew

I'm not ruling anything out.  My performance I don't think is affected and I just cannot convince myself that the noise is just coming from the belt area.  It appears to come from all over the engine bay, down ethier side of each bank and from the back.

I have something http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB32&mospid=47756&btnr=11_3277&hg=11&fg=40 - Part #2 screwed to the rear of the inlet manifold with torx screws but it is called a drive unit, aye but for what?

I'm thinking it might be something http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB32&mospid=47756&btnr=11_3281&hg=11&fg=50 - here or http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB32&mospid=47756&btnr=11_3565&hg=11&fg=50 - here but I'l be bd if I can figure out where these bits of kit are located.

Andrew

Stone-IslandV8 wrote: No listing for a PCV oil separator valve on the E60 but there is a listing under crankcase for http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB32&mospid=47756&btnr=11_3259&hg=11&fg=15 - this

Thanks for that John.  That would be right behind where the belts are so it could be blowing a leak and hence the noise from the same area as the belts.

Andrew

Limped the car to BMW this morning.

Asked if a workshop manager/foreman could look at the car so I could explain the fault while it was still hot.

Got a chap out who was plesant and helpful, met him before.  Started car, idling like a tractor, bonnet open to hear the noise and the engine then proceeded to cut out.  Idrive screen displaying fault message and showing large EML light in instrument cluster.  Car has never actually conked out before but was perfect timing to cut out in front of the workshop manager/foreman.

He thought that the fault was with the oil separator diaphragm which is the bit bolted to the back of the inlet manifold, which is part #2 in a post of mine above. He expalined that is is essentially the same thing as the PCV item that you mentioned John. He said all the faults would be linked, the EML, the idle and the noise.

He said he might need the car for a day or two, presumably to source the replacement part.  He would phone me after plugging the car into the machine to check for faults. 

Will keep you posted

Andrew

Just had a call from BMW.  Workshop foreman said that it wasn't http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB32&mospid=47756&btnr=11_3277&hg=11&fg=40 - part #2 and that is was  http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB32&mospid=47756&btnr=11_3258&hg=11&fg=15 - parts #13  at fault.  These are cylinder head breather valves. BMW said that one was broken. Now I poked about at these when I was under the bonnet.  Sometimes they would be blowing out air and sometimes air would be being sucked in.  I tried to remove one but it was well clipped in place on the cylinder head cover and I thought that if I were to try and remove it, it would break. 

I'm not sure what they do appart from regulate pressure inside the cylinder head valve train space but why would you need to do that?  They vent to atmoshpere i.e. there is no hose to conenct to them.

I had a look on TIS and they do not offer a "task" on how to remove these from the cylinder head covers.

I asked if it had thrown up any fault codes and all he could say was that had identified that the engine was running lean.  Not sure if it has been plugged into the diagnostic machine or not.

I'll get the car back tomorrow, so I have to slum it on the bus home tonight!

Andrew

Wahey

All sorted.  Now idles smoothly.  Turned out it was http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB32&mospid=47756&btnr=11_3258&hg=11&fg=15 - parts #13 .  Parts were only £20!  Labour was a lot more after some head sratching, diagnostic checks/reset and test drive!

Video of smooth engine idle it's not great quality you can hardly hear the engine idle over the wind noise but the noise before was easy to hear.

http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h71/andrew_rolland/?action=view&current=17062009.flv">

Picture of engine without covers, runs much noiser without them.  You can see the breather for cylinders 5-8 just below centre of the picture partially obscured by the corner of the air filter box.

You can see it easier in this picture on cylinders 1-4 above the oil filler cap.  There is a hose coming out from the cylinder head cover at the 3 o'clock position under the valve which then goes into the throttle housing and inlet manifold.

It's good to have it back running well

Andrew

Thanks Uwe.  I had figured it was something to do with engine or autobox to protect harm.  Would be a lot of power going thru a idling autobox at 7000 rpm so limiting it to 5000 rpm would limit the damage.  Makes sense.

Is your 530i auto and does it have a rev limit when in Park?

I can't coast in Neutral in my car as I need to be virtually stationary and with the brake pedal pressed to engage D from N.

I found that out to my horror in my E39.  Had to come to a virtual standstill to put it back into D much to the annoyance of the guy behind me!

The oil pump should be still powered when in Neutral as it is the first thing in the transmission between the torque converter and the first set of planetary gears.  You need oil to be pumping to engage gears which is why there hasn't been much success with a start stop automatic car!  The gearbox needs oil pressure to engage gears.  No rotation input = no pump pressure = no gears selected.