Car .............     A  .............  B

Length          4356mm        4360mm

Width           1613mm         1748mm

Height           1346mm         1423mm

Wheelbase     2578mm        2660mm

Weight          1050kg         ~1335kg

Both A and B are BMWs

I know what they are, but do you?

1st comment B needs to go on a severe diet

Rossi wrote: E21 vs E90?

Both you and Alex have it half right, but Alex needs to be more specific

Ok we have established E21 but which E?? for the 1 series?

Look at the length

Ah but what's the E number?

I was comparing an E?? 120 D with a 1975 320i

Comment:

You can't really compare the weight of two similar sized cars that were made over 20-30 years appart. Not only will the trim level of the newer car be much much higher than the older car, something with is driven by buyer demand and competiton, but it will also be a lot safer.

Think about the things that make modern cars heavy. You have comfort items such as electric windows, aircon, electic mirrors, electric seats, multi speaker stereo systems.  You have safety features such as airbags, ABS, traction control, side impact protection etc. I'm sure BMW could have built the 1 series to be as light as an E21 but it would either have been so low spec with no safety features whatsover so it wouldn't have sold.

Alternatively it would have been constructed from expensive lightweight materials like Carbon fibre so would have cost twice as much.

Rossi wrote: E21 v E81 Wider cars are generally heavier but, 285 kilos heavier..

Near but incorrect. Look at the length

I agree with you Peter about the extra fetures adding extra weight.

As you there also has been improvements in the materials e.g. high strength steels, lighter plastics, which are used on the 1 series. So the car being the weight of 3 men heavier is a bit much.

We have a contrdiction in our car buying. We the end user want the best of both worlds leading to this weight increase but also want economy which needs weight loss. A balance will have to be struck soon before it all goes pear shaped.

As 24 hours have gone by

The specific answer I was looking for was E21 v E82 the new coupe.

1975 320i v 2007 120d

To me a coupe is something low and sleek but if you look at the dimensions the 1 series coupe is 77mm above the 320i that is 3 inches taller than the 3 series saloon. Now Peter did make the point that extra safety and features have made cars heavier, but it does not account for coupe being 3 inches taller than a saloon.

I think BMW have lost a little direction here.

Rossi wrote: hmm...so there could possibly be an X3 Coupe in future then..

That was my first thought when I saw this thread http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=38147&PN=1 - "anyone for an X6"

gjoconnor92 wrote:  Now Peter did make the point that extra safety and features have made cars heavier, but it does not account for coupe being 3 inches taller than a saloon. I think BMW have lost a little direction here.

I think all car makers are along with the people rolling out the ledgislation governing car safety etc . All new cars are taller than their predesessors. This I suspect is largely down to trying to create the feeling of space in the cabin of a car that has an ever increasing ammount of kit in it. On top of this it's now not good enough for a supermini like a fiesta, for example, not to be able to seat 5 adults in comfort. Car designers are being pressed more an more to make cars more spacious as well as cram more kit in. In  a sense the only way to go is up

The weight issue is the same. The problem with this is, as you pointed out before that by increasing the weight you reduce the efficiency of the car. A light car is a more economical car.

I think BMW should make a car in the Elise/VX220 mould except as front engined rather than mid engined. They have the drive trains. Why not do a chassis to do them justice?