’Cheap’ Performance gains for the E30....
Printed From: Bavarian-Board.co.uk - BMW Owners Discussion Forum
Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW ///M Power
Forum Discription: Ask your BMW M Power Technical Questions here (M1, M2 hybrids, M3, M5 & M6)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=34324
Printed Date: 14-May-2024 at 10:28
Topic: ’Cheap’ Performance gains for the E30....
Posted By: Nico G
Subject: ’Cheap’ Performance gains for the E30....
Date Posted: 15-November-2006 at 19:43
|
I know it has been well discussed in the past on this forum that bhp gains on the E30 M3 come with high financial outlay, for example to get a 2.3 @200 bhp to around 260 bhp involves a 2.5 conversion and about £8K. This got me thinking that as my car is an '89, though it has been well looked after (or so the history and the behaviour in my ownership suggest) it may well have had a few horses 'liberated' from it over the past 17 years or so. As I am about to get a full service done (hopefully at MJF, Dorking (I'm in Chichester) any other recommendations?) My question is this. What components/systems, etc. not looked at in a normal fluids service, might have affected performance over the years and be due some attention? I have heard about the plenum gasket degrading and affecting idle smoothness and I think I remember a recent thread suggestion something along the lines of a ECU set-up for a standard car with afm etc? All recommendations gratefully received but I'm really focusing on the engine and powertrain... Thank you - Nick. Really I think that if my car is (for example) now developing 185 brake at the flywheel and I can get it back to 200 for say £500, I'll notice a real difference I expect, No? |
Replies:
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 15-November-2006 at 19:55
|
engines loose power because the WEAR. End of story. Sad but true. There is nothing you can do. Only to fit NEW parts. ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: Dannyboy
Date Posted: 15-November-2006 at 19:58
|
no idea but its a good question well put. ------------- 1992 clio 1.8 16V Good 1998 Subaru Impreza Turbo Terzo Great 1987 M3 Diamond Black Awesome (Now awesomer with Billys & Eibach) |
Posted By: BMG M3
Date Posted: 15-November-2006 at 20:02
| Think about buying the guys engine a few threads down thats been rebuilt with cams etc. Sell your engine on and the difference might be less than you think. If you have a 195 car and you are 10 brake down, thats not so bad.But then that depends on how acurate the rollong road is you used. |
Posted By: Nico G
Date Posted: 15-November-2006 at 20:28
|
I have thought about that but I don't have the 'bridging funds' that option would neccessitate !!! I haven't used a rolling road - I said '185' as a potentially realistic output taking into account it's age.... Uwe - I understand you point about wear but aside from horsepower what about smoothness and responsivness? Plugs, airfilter, propshaft coupling (there is evidence of this being done in the sh by the way but I don't remember when! For info, the car has done an indicated 115,000 kms |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 15-November-2006 at 22:08
Your car is supposed to have 195 bhp from factory. Which it doesn't have, more ore less. So let's assume some healthy 190 bhp. Over the years you loose some because of wear, let's say 185. Of course you will loose even more if your setup is in bad shape. Plugs, airfilter, bad tune etc. You can rectify this, but you can't "service" the engine back to 195. Once worn, always worn. And every mile eats a little bit more away... With 115k kms you have nothing to worry. Unless the previous owners have been total pr***ks. But even that isn't the end of the S14, it's a though little engine which can take a lot of abuse before quit. Just get used to the thought that the 195 bhp M3 ISN'T as powerful as it looks. Maybe 1987 it was a very fast car. Compare it to cars from back then and see how they are doing today (if they still exist) You can improve the power with some cams and Alpha-N. But don't expect miracles. I think I told you already in Silverstone, leave your engine alone till it NEEDS a rebuild. But then do it right  ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Nico G wrote:Posted By: Hoover
Date Posted: 15-November-2006 at 23:19
| picking up on nicks point about smoothness, do people balance the throttles from time to time, i notice mines got yellow caps on so i'm not sure when it was last dont but if its anything like my busa it could be way off. |
Posted By: jon90
Date Posted: 16-November-2006 at 09:10
|
Yes throttle bodies need balancing from time to time.Shouldn`t really give you any extra power but if it`s way off definatley effects smoothness and response to the throttle.
If you still have the yellow caps yours are definatley over due for a balance. Nico,you could always have it remapped.Many people have had it done and it does make the car nicer to drive and releases more power.Prices for remapping have been creeping up over the last couple of years so it`s not exactly cheap anymore £400-500. Jon |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 16-November-2006 at 13:35
call me pickie but I just wanted to point out a thing (or two  )
You do not really balance the THROTTLE with the screws under the yellow/blue caps. You balance the air BYPASSING the throttle butterflies. As soon you open the throttle only by a fraction this is not effective anymore. The throttles CAN indded be sync'd but that's a rather more complicated precedure. And by spending £400 for a re-map (who is doing it PROPERLY ??) you are not far off to MAXX Alpha-N which will enable you to iron all the bugs out yourself. just a thought. ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: 215m3
Date Posted: 16-November-2006 at 14:00
|
As Uwe has mentioned with syncing the TB's. I started it on my car once the new head was fitted. On the drive to Colin's house it was a little hesitent.
We started by getting the throttle lever that links the 2 TB's together. We lost the TPS click, but eventually got it back. Colin used to do this on his old DTM E30 when he raced it and remembered it needed to be abou 100mm or similar in lentgh. We then got the machine(with 4 tubes) to help level up the butterflies(forgotten its name) when we got them balanced it was like night and day from before we started and was so smooth on the drive home. ------------- Toby http://www.bmminiparts.com - New Genuine BMW & Mini OEM parts - www.bmminiparts.com 1987 E30 M3 with turbo being added |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 16-November-2006 at 14:03
T, you won't need Vacuum gauges to sync the butterflies. It's a hardware and measure everything exercise. Ther is a niche write up somewher but I can't find it. ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: Hoofty
Date Posted: 16-November-2006 at 17:05
|
Uwe, do you mean this? http://home.insightbb.com/~todd.kenyon/throttle.htm - http://home.insightbb.com/~todd.kenyon/throttle.htm ------------- '89 E30 M3 '99 106 GTi |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 16-November-2006 at 17:15
spot on! ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: M3Nally
Date Posted: 17-November-2006 at 10:24
|
How many people get this done or can do this procedure/ s as mentioned in that article.
I have no verniers and wouldn't know where to start unless I was shown. Someone could make some money if they produced a video doing this! From the benefits though I would say it should be an essential, too often we don't concentrate on even getting the basic setup sorted. Who can do this on my car then! Kevin ------------- E30 M3 Macao blue metallic Evolution 2 E39 530d Sport Auto, Aegean blue Edition, Sat Nav, TV, comms pack etc. E39 540i Auto, Sat Nav, TV, leather, luxo barge |
Posted By: 215DMX
Date Posted: 17-November-2006 at 10:40
|
Follow the article above, its pretty easy to do, as long as you have a steady hand...and a dial guage.
|
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 17-November-2006 at 11:11
|
I don't think this needs to be done often. All the srews are paint marked and ans long the paint is undamaged it should be left alone IMO.
Unless you have seperated the two throttle assemblies, there is no need to fiddle with this. If you don't what you are doing, LEAVE IT ALONE! ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: Hoover
Date Posted: 17-November-2006 at 13:37
| Sureley its best to stick the carb tune on first and see if theres any big difference? |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 17-November-2006 at 15:00
correct! Don't repair it if it works  ------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
Posted By: M3Nally
Date Posted: 17-November-2006 at 16:26
|
a) I always leave stuff if I don't know what I am doing
b) I don't have a steady hand c) The original paint marks will still be there. I was wondering how the shim measurements could actually go out of spec, I don't think there would be that much wear in normal use. ------------- E30 M3 Macao blue metallic Evolution 2 E39 530d Sport Auto, Aegean blue Edition, Sat Nav, TV, comms pack etc. E39 540i Auto, Sat Nav, TV, leather, luxo barge |