theres a "BMW E28 B2.8 528i Alpina" (what a mouthful!) on ebay at the moment with 13k miles from new... numberplate looks familiar?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E28-B2-8-528i-Alpina-1984-Henna-Red-Manual-as-new_W0QQitemZ4613721857QQcategoryZ9837QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E28-B2-8-528i-Alpina-1984-Henna-Re d-Manual-as-new_W0QQitemZ4613721857QQcategoryZ9837QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

This car was advertised in BMW car last year. I spent a lot of time talking to the owner and he kindly sent me a CD with literally hundreds of photos. I was very interested in buying it.

It is a beautiful car, but is not an Alpina "B anything"

The lead time on a new Alpina was too long for the first owner to wait, so he had a new 528i fitted with a few Alpina parts (cosmetic) by Sytners.

The car is probably unrepeatable, and looked absolutely as new in the pictures I was sent. It is not an Alpina though, and I think the advert is misleading.

The advert description is fair if you know what you're looking at but could be misleading if you don't.

Sytner did do a few cosmetic cars and even had specific badging for a run of B3.5s (E32 & E34).  Those are even rarer than the real things and are often better spec'd (albeit not quite as powerful in the go dept.).

Hi, Donnie here, the guy who has the 528i on Ebay. Yes there is some confusion over the variant as to whether its regarded as an Alpina or not, the B2.8 was a loss leader for Sytners in 1984, and  didnt sell as intended at the time. Some factory ready, as in, equipped with LSD, sports suspension, recaro interior, uprated exhaust etc, etc, as is this one, were farmed out to other dealers. The model was only available in 1984, thereafter ceased.

Although not regarded as a true Alpina, the car is original and has never been touched cosmeticaly or mechanicaly, other than the addition of the Hartge rear apron, which I fitted last year.

I've owned a number of E28 M535i's, E24 635i's over the last 15 years, and know a good car when I see it. This particular car is the as new as it gets, not as quick as an m535i ( currently have one, and service a few other friends M535i's), but when I say it drives as new, looks as new, and has been totally protected as new underside, it really is this good, and the 2.8 engine is far superior to the 3.5 unit for reliability.

Lots of E28's out there!, but not like this one guys!

Thanks for your comments, Donnie

Hi Donnie and welcome

You've got a very unique motor there and I'm pleased to see that it's not being mis-represented.  I know it's not the full works and will be dismissed by many of the purists but that's their loss.

My B3.5 is much better spec'd than any B11 I've seen and I don't care if it doesn't have the Mahle pistons because I've no intention of thrashing it round a track.

My B6 2.8 isn't 'real' either because it was a dealer conversion by John Clark BMW rather than a Sytner job.  It still matches the B10 3.3 that I took to work today for performance.

Good luck with the sale, but don't expect it to reach the price of a collectors item!

Thanks Chas.

regards Donnie

Hi Nick, no it wasnt I, I bought it last year and it required all the following replaced due to such a long storage, all the perishables, such as all coolant & heater hoses, flexi rubber brake hoses, radiator(precaution) Viscous coup, coolant, engine oil and filter(of course), gearbox oil, brake fluid, power steering fluid & filter, belts, plugs, dist cap & rotor, cam gasket, etc etc. All the hoses and rad seemed fine, but, feel better changing them, with the car sitting so long.

Donnie

At the end of the day, no matter what is said, the fact remains, it's a proper BMW, modified by a BMW specialist and looked after by a proper BMW enthusiast, therefore, it's a beauty in every sense of the word! How anyone can knock such a wonderful piece of engineering is beyond me (blinkin purists!)

Anyway, smashin' car and if I had the cash, there would be 2 shiny, red beemers on my drive! If I win the lottery on Saturday and she's sold, I'll be very upset!

Regards

Mike

Thanks Mike, your dead right, too many guys out there missing the point! If you spent £5K plus on a normal milage E28 of any model, Alpina or other, it still wouldnt be as factory fresh and unmolested as this one. I'll probably keep the car, and just use it in summer months. Therefore get the enjoyment of driving it a bit more, to justify it sitting in the garage all winter, Scottish road salt is a killer for all cars!

The other point is, that the car is probably rarer than any other variant, due to the factory extras at the time, such as the LSD, recaro and the sports suspension, which is perfectly balanced, not as h**** as the M535i, but handles as well, and the Alpina spoiler etc is original from new.

I can send you some good recent pics if you wish, not on ebay, that make good for keepng!

regards. Donnie

Nice motor

Is that Donnie as in Donnie M??

Pete330 wrote: Nice motor   Is that Donnie as in Donnie M??

Edit:

If only i looked at your profile Lol

How you doing Donnie?

Not seen you around for a bit

have you asked James to send out an email about this car for sale?

Sure we could find a good home

Still got the Dolphin Grey 6?

Hi Pete, yes its Donnie M, how are you Pete, been a bit busy last while, sold my Dolphin six last year to a chap in Cumbernauld, and bought the Henna red E28 B2.8. Thought of selling it, but really want to keep it, only problem is its too good to use, its as new!. Also got an E28 535ise with electric cream leather for weekends.

James is looking to sell one of his M535i's the silver one, he just had Moted etc so nearly ready for selling, I'll tell him to post an ad for it.

Hope to catch you in spring meeting at some point, take care. Donnie

Hi Guys, First time I've used a forum like this so bear with me. I was also interested in the "Alpina B9" on Ebay - in particular the claim that it was the first Alpina built by Sytners and hence the first in the UK.

I thought that honour went to my Alpina B9, not only because when I bought it from Sytners I was told it was the first ever, but also because they went to the lengths of giving me a letter confirming it was the first. It was also the car driven by Raymond Baxter in the Autocar video and tested by the press at Dinnington when the Alpina B9 was launched.

Can anyone suggest how I could get a reliable definitive answer? My B9 has just gone through a comprehensive restoration - not because it was failing, but to ensure it goes back to as near new condition as possible. Looking forward to your replies.

you could try emailing Gerhard Weber at Alpina in Buchloe, he is listed on the site as contact for sales - might be able to find some history?

Gerhard Weber
Phone: 0 82 41 / 50 05-201
Fax: 0 82 41 / 50 05-155
eMail: mailto:g.weber@alpina.de?subject=Request from ALPINA website">g.weber@alpina.de

You could also try asking the helpful peeps on the official Alpina Register forum for any information they might have - http://www.thealpinaregister.com - www.thealpinaregister.com

Hi Stephen,

Gerhard at Alpina knows the car well and as far as he is concerned it also was the first RHD ever made. Having read some of the other postings in the string I can understand where the confusion lies. The E28 with an engine transplant and a few nice Alpina accessories looks a lovely car and all credit to the current owner for spending so much money on it. However it's NOT an Alpina - and I'm not just being a "bloody purist". Respect the car for what it is - a highly modified, superbly made BMW. I do consider that the sales pitch on Ebay is highly misleading though - firstly it's not an authentic Alpina and secondly it certainly wasn't the first Alpina in the UK. If I bought this car from that description and then found this forum I'd be going straight to Trading Standards.

If you would like me to upload pics of my B9 I'd be happy to do so (but someone will have to advise me how to do it!). I told you I was new to all this.

have a look here for instructions

http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5485&PN=1 - http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5485&am p;PN=1

or alternatively, email them to me ( mailto:stephen@perry1976.demon.co.uk - stephen@perry1976.demon.co.uk ) and i'll post them up for you instead

Thanks Stephen, I'll look out some interesting ones and e-mail them to you, probably tomorrow night.

Les

Hi guys, to butt in on this debate! I would say that information either way is now a bit patchy on Alpina (sytners records), and your right Drew, no need to slate anyone here! We're a club for goodness sake! I would only value a car on condition only, theres so many cars been messed about with, over 20 years your never sure! I would suggest anyone really interested in any variant, to do the norm, inspect, test drive and check all receipts serv hist etc, and go from there. (I'll butt out now.

Donnie

OOH! Steady boys, your claws are showing! Firstly, I have the original letter from Sytners to me confirming that my car is the first complete Alpina B9 build - on Sytner letterhead, sent by the then head of Sales in 1990 when I bought the car. Secondly, as I have previously mentioned, my car is very well known by Alpina GMBH, and they have also confirmed that it is the first one built as an Alpina B9 3.5 to Alpina factory spec. They were particularly pleased to hear that it was still going strong and was going to be fully restored this year.

There were some other Alpina hybrids made by Sytner using partially modified 528's and I'm not the only person that doesn't consider these hybrids as true Alpinas, nice cars though they are. An engine transplant, a spoiler kit, some nice wheels and a few decals doesn't make it a true Alpina. Ask Buchloe what they consider to be a true Alpina.

Oh and by the way Drew, I've never spoken to you before in my life, either in person or on the web so I don't know who you're confusing me with. Also your suspicions that I have XNU 120Y are incorrect - guess again!

In the past 16 years since I bought my Alpina B9 I've looked after it, raced it, toured Europe in it and enjoyed every minute that I've driven it. I avoided joining clubs and forums, after a racetrack day with Club 89, when I met some senior members of one of the owners clubs and found them to be pompous bores. I came into this forum tonight with an open mind and a potential problem looking for a little help and clarification. What I got was help from one very positive member and a very bitchy response from another. I am an "Alpinalover" and proud of it, which is why I waited for my car to come on the market via Sytners, from it's very first owner. I don't think I was conned, but perhaps some people need to get real about what makes a real Alpina.

I think I'll fade back into obscurity now and enjoy my Alpina in peace.

Pack your hand bags away now girls

It`s only a car

Pete330 wrote: Pack your hand bags away now girls It`s only a car

On the contrary, it's refreshing to see some really enthusiastic owners

Right - Final posting and this ones especially for Drew540i - just to put the record straight.

Drew in one of your postings you say -

"Fake? I don't think so. Sorry, but you really
shouldn't publicly slate another car as being non
genuine - how would you feel if we did it to you?"

I did not call the car a fake in ANY of my postings - you introduced this term to try misrepresent my viewpoint. Nor did I slate the car, quite the contrary. Here's what I did say -

" it looks a lovely car and all credit to the current owner for spending so much money on it. "

Not quite the way you've paraphrased my viewpoint is it?

It was Mallorcaman who said -

Even donniebmwm535 THE OWNER OF THE CAR said -

"Although not regarded as a true Alpina, the car is original"

And ALL of these comments were made before I even made my first posting!

My first concern and the question in my first posting was regarding the "claim that it was the first Alpina built by Sytners and hence the first in the UK."

Your highly sarcastic response to me was -

"You have come here, claiming that what has been PROVEN to be the very first Sytner built RHD B9 is fake. You also claim that any Alpina built by Sytners is not a real Alpina despite the fact that Sytner did exactly what Alpina in Buchloe did "

Please get your facts right before you start hurling abuse!

As I've stated if you read my postings I never called Gavins Alpina a fake nor did I claim "any Alpina built by Sytners is not a real Alpina " - they are embellishments that only exist in your mind. The point I made is that apart from the Alpinas that Sytner did make to the full Alpina spec, there were also quite a few partial conversions, some only cosmetic, which were not true Alpinas. (Frank wasn't stupid and new there was some money to be made from partial conversions, body kits and decals.)

Now regarding that abuse - you tell me to go away, go and lie down, stop talking nonsense and finally acuse me of having a snotty, elitist tone! Not very friendly or polite to a Newbie and again a perception that exists more in your mind than in the text of my postings. I don't think I insulted you once - what a missed opportunity.

Finally your sarcasm is directed at the letter I got from Sytners - you call it a silly letter, a Jackanory story and then imply it is fictitious. Believe me Drew it's real - I'm looking at it right now - and it's not a silly letter, it's a piece of history.

It states that my car Alpina B9, build number 5 - 192, registration WRC 858Y, is the first RHD Alpina built and sold in the UK.

So there you have it.

To all of you that sent me private messages of welcome to the Forum and asking for more info - many thanks, your politeness and kindness are appreciated.

To Gavin (owner of the Ebay car) - best of luck with the Ebay sale, I see it's going up slowly, if I had a few grand spare I'd bid on it myself. I hope it goes to a real Alpina lover.

To Drew - with your talents for selective reading, misrepresentation and trying to turn a difference of viewpoint into a full blown slanging match, you really ought to be working as a politician or a news reporter.

Goodnight all - Over & out.

Drew, What planet are you on??? I really haven't the faintest clue what you are talking about!

This whole debate is starting to get surreal and just a little boring.

Firstly you claim to have had a conversation with me about my car, "last year old boy", when in fact it wasn't me or even my car. I've never met or spoken to you before or to any member of the BMW Owners or Car club in the past 10-15 years. Are you confusing me with a guy you've argued with before? - that might explain why you started off with such an aggressive and insulting tone. Is this because you've had a previous run in with an "alpinalover" who had a "snotty elitist tone". If that's the case it's not me - I only took the name "alpinalover" 3 days ago when I registered to get on this forum.

Secondly, you now say that I'm not talking about Donnie' car at all (the one on Ebay), but another one! What car is that supposed to be Drew?? Cos I don't know. This whole string was a discussion about the E28 Alpina that was on Ebay (Donnie's/Gavin's car). What other car could I be referring to?

What's next Drew, are you going to claim that I assassinated Kennedy?

At the end of the day Drew we are two enthusiasts that share a passion for the same marque of car. Why can't you respect that someone else may have a different opinion to yourself without becoming rude and sarcastic. My belief that my Alpina is the first B9 built and sold in the UK is based on written confirmation from Sytner (from a time when they would actually confirm the pedigree of a car in writing, which they haven't done now for several years) and 17 years of owning the car (including numerous conversations with Alpina GMBH and Sytners). Your final insult about it being based on a Sytner keyring because you had checked with BMW was laughable. What was your source? It certainly wasn't Ged Scanlon or Lucy Monro at Sytners (01159341414) with whom I had a couple of very interesting conversations this afternoon. Funny, they didn't remember you or your extensive inspection of the build records at Nottingham last year? However, they did state that nobody was allowed to inspect the build records or have copies of either their own car OR anybody elses, because of past problems with liabilities for false claims - and that that had been the situation for some years. If that is the case how did you manage your extensive research without their permission or cooperation.

What I have established is that my car, build 5- 192, was the first true RHD Alpina B9 sold in the UK. The confirmation letter also says "built", but what has come to light is that my car may have been specially prebuilt and tuned in Buchloe and sent across to Sytners for "finishing" as it was the car used at the UK launch. If, and I say again if, that is the case and Sytners chose to interpret this as "built" in the UK for commercial reasons, that may explain some of the confusion. They certainly wouldn't release the first RHD Alpina B9 to the press and then sheepishly confess that it had actually been built in Germany would they?

The situation now is that if ANY early Alpina owner contacts Sytners requesting confirmation that their car is a genuine Alpina (made to full Alpina spec, not just cosmetic) they will get the basic information (Chassis no., spec, date of first registration, etc) but with it will come a specific disclaimer that Sytners are not prepared to confirm the authenticity of any Alpina not bought as new. Whatsmore, because of the time required to go through the old written (non-computerised) records, Sytners have to raise a charge of £50 plus VAT.

My confirmation letter was given to me when I first bought the car 17 years ago, when Sytners weren't so concerned with potential claims and liabilities, and when the majority of the sales and workshop staff were actually working there when the first B9's were built. In the absence of any clear evidence to the contrary I'd say that's pretty conclusive.

Hopefully, if I offer to sign any discalimers or waivers, I may be able to persuade contacts at Sytner, BMW and Alpina to confirm whether my car was prebuilt and tuned in Germany and just "finished" by Sytners or whether as the letter says it was the first Alpina B9 built and sold in the UK. I'm not looking to sue anybody, just trying to find out a bit more about my prize possession.

Drew - I can't begin to understand why you got so aggressive and insulting, particularly about a subject that actually didn't concern you directly. I don't know you from Adam and your friends probably think your a nice guy. However, if you ever find yourself in South Hertfordshire on a sunny Sunday afternoon in Summer let me know - I'll meet you for a pint and show you my B9.

Over & out.

Hi M3AG, I think the idea of a meet for a pint is a great idea. Wait a few weeks until my B9 is back on the road and I'll bring it along and the infamous letter from Sytners (just to prove it exists).

James if you could make the meet I'd be happy to see you there. You can have a look round my Alpina and generally talk Alpina stuff. Like you I also love the 635 CSi - it's a gorgeous shape and still has that wonderful sharks nose in common with the 5 series. I don't know a lot about 6 series Alpinas, but they did make them. Again several years ago I nearly bought one to go with my B9. It was a White M635 converted to Alpina spec by Sytner (I think as an experiment) but with the full knowledge and support of Alpina GMBH. What was really interesting was it was turbocharged. It was a super quick car and beautiful too look at but at the time was a bit too expensive for me. I still wish I'd bought it though. M3AG is right - not all Alpina owners want to fight with handbags at dawn. I'm a Newbie myself and was just as surprised by the welcome I got as you were.

Drew I'm not going to comment on your last posting other than to point out that I only know of one Alpina on Ebay at present and that that is owned by a guy called Gavin whom I assumed used the name donniembmw in this forum.

If you want to attend a meet I'd be happy to see you there

Hi Drew, your right, this discussion was about my E28, not about the other E28 B9 that was on sale in Ebay! How this disc got round to arguements over two B9,s indentity crisis I dont know. And why my cars caught up in the crisis ?

I'm just happy that I proved a point upon the approx value of the car, the reason that I put it on Ebay was just to assist in the value of the car, because of the such low mileage and condition. The condition is as I described ( as new) and reckon very rare at that. Some may dissagree, and have mentioned before in this disc, but I would say that Ebay is possibly the best platform to potentially sell a car, because of the worldwide viewing, and that so much detail/pics can be included, compared to Autotrader and others. Had enquires from as far as Hongkong!

Cheers guys

Just a quickie I've got a b2.8 with a hole in the exhaust, one of the front pipes. Had a quick chat with sytners and they're showing standard two versions both off left hand drive 528i cars. And were not sure which one it was, to email the vin to BMW. But you fellas are saying it should be different exhaust just for the alpina.

Has anyone had to order one, and do they know which one it should be

Cheers

Dave 

Wow!  I need to check in here more often.  Not had such a good read since the last rant I was involved in on another forum

Alpinas are special cars but anyone who knows the history of the company will know that there is a very blurred line between what is and isn't an Alpina.  Ironically, the older 'classics' are more interesting but pre '78 cars never saw Buchloe or Sytners workshops.  Go figure.

I have three cars on the Alpina register sitting on my driveway just now and they represent the full spectrum of what Alpina is about.  Only one is 'genuine' but all three were prepared from new by Alpina or Alpina appointed dealers using Alpina parts.  (I should add that the other two cars were only added to the register at the request of the register admin, although I shouldn't have to!)

Please guys, lets keep it in perspective and don't get personal.  That's what gives owners clubs a bad name and it does get boring after a while.  Remember that arguing on internet forums is like running in the paraplegic olympics...  it doesn't matter if you win, you're still retarded

Cheers for that.

Ive had a look at the BMW parts system (stuck the vin in) and had a look at the car and am happy which one it should be.The middle/end bit has been done its just the front that bit from the manifold that needs changing.

Thanks again everyone you've saved much head scratching