May be of interest for the Sussex guy's. Spotted today on the M23 around Peace Pottage an unmarked dark metallic Impreza with only the flashing blue lights in the windows, NOTHING else to ID it. It was nicking an Audi A6 northbound. Sorry, didn't catch the exact colour or reg as I was hammering along!

I'd claim entrapment!

livvy wrote: That's got nothing to do with entrapment though, neither has the use of unmarked cars either.

So why don't they use say a rover 75, or a V6 Mondeo? Surely they'd get a better discount.

Maybe they do get a good reduction in price but I think another reason is that they know that when they storm up behind another Impreza or a CSL or any other high performance car, there is a high chance that the the guys going to go for it. I feel thats entrapment.

The whole safety issue about speeding should be addressed by increasing the visability of the Police and the number about. Not to give the person a reason to "go for it". My opinion and I'm sticking by it. 

I'm not against the use of unmarked cars in the right circumstances. However I feel an Impreza is a bit too blatent to say the least.

livvy wrote: They do use a lot of V6 mondeos & 2litre ones. Why is there a high chance of someone going for it ? No one can make you drive faster than the limit, the person who has control of the car is supposed to be you. If you go faster than the limit there is no-one to blame but you, it's your personal responsibility. If someone is travelling faster than you & the limit then just let them go by. You don't have to view it as a threat to your masculinity that another car on the road is travelling faster than you & the speed limit. That's their choice to take the risk & them who'll get the points if caught.

Come on! In the real world the Scooby is percieved as a boy racers car and myself like most people have the urge to 'have a go' the police know this and this is there reason for having it unmarked.

It is no threat to my masculinity when there is another car wishing to travel faster than me, if I choose to 'have a go' then it is because I enjoy it. I admit there is a 'time and a place' for this, speeding in a 30 zone past a school is reckless and punishment should be dealt but on a clear open road away from other people and in good conditions, why not?

Mark

scarface wrote: Rhys wrote: The problem is the police aren't the same as they used to be - there's no respect anymore (on both sides) I think that sums it up well.

My feelings too !

Livvy said :

We are talking about being worried by a tailgater here. You are saying that the vehicle tailgating you is a concern. If that is the case remove the threat by letting it get infront of you. They can't tailgate you if they are ahead of you. Playing with them just raises the stakes and promotes road rage. Take a lead in avoiding that rather than promoting it's escalation.

I have to agree with Livvy...but I did dissagree on one post !

livvy wrote: Nigel wrote: ...but I did dissagree on one post ! But you always try to where ever you can

This lot don't think so lol

So far I have been accused of having two identities, and after that of sleeping with you !!!!!!!!

livvy wrote: Whats wrong with a clip round the ear.. Nowadays when a cop says out to youngsters all they get back is a couple of fingers in the air and a bit of colourful language. Once over you got a clip, then when you went home and told your parents - they gave you one as well.. Too many sandle wearing lentil eating do-gooders around for my liking nowadays. I agree that some less than respectful youngsters are dealt with too leniently. But assaults are not the answer to that.

Bit close to the wind spokey old chap, debate the point rather than make personal comments please.

livvy are u the police or do u just know too much?

if the police want to stop people speeding whats best than a marked car at the side of the road or driving near you. marked cars save lives not a subaru wanting u to have a go after them.

the tactics the police use are wrong, hiding in bushes or behind bus stops or in unmarked cars. 

they should be stopping drunk drivers, car theives, road tax and insurence dodgers   

not the avarage joe who does 80 in a 70 zone.

whats worse some one who dose 80 in 70 zone or a drunk driver?

a marked car stops the speeding in the first place. an unmaked car rakes the cash in.

thats all very good speak livvy!

what cheese people off specialy me is when my workshop gets turned over it takes 3HOURS for plod to turn up to tell me that ive been a victim of crime, (no s**t sherlock)wondered where all me tools had gone! then to drive home at an ungodly speed of 42mph to find plod sitting on his a**e minding a camera on a sunday, no doubt on overtime that im paying for. but as you quote " My veiws expressed are just that. mine and mine alone.!!

yours bitter and twisted

Thats a tricky one dutch, and I understand your frustration, its one I've felt.

3,500 people didn't return home last year, 3,500 families affected in the most serious way possible......sudden death.

Neither I nor Livvy believe the present enforcement program is the best way forward, but it is efficient and cheap.

I believe the best way forward is driver training, do you have any ideas that will gelp with casualty reduction ?

Livvy - I think that Dutch was signing his post as "Bitter and Twisted" rather than calling you "Bitter and Twisted"!

New Years night, at about 3am, I drove into town to pick up some drunken friends (I hadn't been out or drinking).  I was in the city centre (Galway) and stopped at a set of traffic lights when an unmarked Mondeo pulled up behind me (it's a small town, and I pass the Garda station four times a day, so I know most of the cars).  After about 30 seconds he turned on his blue lights.  Because of the layout of the junction, it was safe for me to pull into a clearing just the other side of the lights without interfering or risking contact with any other traffic, therefore allowing the emergency services vehicle behind me to proceed unimpeeded.  I pulled into the clearing, and the Mondeo pulled in behind me.  I got out of my car, drivers license in hand, to find out what the problem was.  The passenger from the Garda car got out and started reading me the rite act for running the red light!!!  Bear in mind the night and time of being stopped; the likelihood of them going to a serious call would have been extremely high.  I pointed out that, as he had had no obvious reason to stop me, I thought that he was trying to get to an emergency, and that I only crossed the lights when they had lit their blues, to which he replied that under absolutely NO circumstances should I ever break a red light, and then asked if I had my license (which I had proffered to him at the outset).  When I asked him if that meant that I should block ambulances and fire engines (we were actually outside the main fire station doors at the time) when it was safe to give them a clear path, he turned on his heel, got back into his car, and duly ignored the 2 taxis that flew through the red lights beside him!!!  I could actually see his driver cringing when I asked about the ambulances!!!

As for the goading argument; one of my suppliers was coming from a jewellery fair when a car cut him off on a roundabout (came from the right lane to turn left).  He flashed it, and continued on his way.  A few minutes later he passed the same car and it pulled up to his bumper, so he pulled away.  The other car kept doing this, and eventually turned on a blue light, at which point he stopped.  When the policeman (this was near London) asked him what he was playing at, my guy pointed out where he was coming from and that he had upwards of £100k of jewellery in the car.  The polis arrested him and seized the jewellery in case it was stolen goods (despite him having receipts for everything!).  They brought him into a room with a guy they said was there for aggravated burglary, and asked him for his name and address (all of the jewellery was on a table in front of them), which he refused to give due to the other guys profession.  So he was sent to the cells for 4 hours, was brought back out to give his name and address, and was de-arrested,  but they kept the jewellery for 4 weeks, during which time he could do no business as the polis had his stock.  When he eventually got it back, there was no apology and one or two smaller pieces had gone, but the polis did nothing to trace them.

I know that not all situations are like these (you'll always hear the bad faster than the good, and I've had more good experience with the Gardai than bad), but the above were stupid, as was the one where a female Garda stopped me, alleging that I was speeding.  Funnily enough, the only place she could possible have seen me was stopped at a junction, which was where she stopped me (they were coming from my right on said junction).  When I pointed out that I hadn't been speeding, she got thick and checked my license, tax, NCT, insurance, tyres......basically went through the whole car.  Can anyone guess how annoyed she was when she couldn't find anything wrong???

I'm no saint, but I'll put my hands up when I know I'm in the wrong.  So far, I've been lucky!!

In my experience Fey, the Garda are more bloody minded, and much more of a nuisance than the British police....but some of that may be the slight difference in our cultures, plus the fact I'm British and driving a foriegn car within your Country, which I imagine will be part of the problem your mate had here.

As for the missing jewelry, what can I say mate ?, except I'm sorry and embarrassed, there is nothing worse than a bent copper, their fellow coppers hate them more than we do.

Nigel/Livvy - in my experience of the police, not too many of them are crooked (maybe I'm either naive or lucky).

Spokey - I'm not a massive fan of police procedures and response times, but I think you're being very unreasonable.  The 30mph average on the motorway is more likely the fault of shortsighted infrastructure planning and bad motorists than the police, imho.

Dutch - I agree with the ADT test as the only test.  My brother in law is German, and they have to undergo a set number of instruction hours on private ground before they're let loose on public roads.  In Switzerland, afaik, if you fail your test 3 times, you have to get a psychiatric evaluation to say whether or not you should be let on the road

Do any of you ever watch Britains Worst Driver?  All the people on that had passed their tests, but shouldn't be let on the roads!

As for the use of the WRX (and the unmarked Volvo T6 estates) - aren't these cars primarily used for fast response/support units (I can't remember the proper term for these units) which also police really bad driving rather than being used as static speed traps?  From what I gather, they also deal a lot with drugs culture.

Maybe I'm off the reservation with that.

Nigel - I'm not a statistician, nor am I, or have I ever been, involved in the emergency services; I'm one of the lucky ones who rarely has to see the carnage.  The driving I witness day to day is on Irish roads, with Irish drivers.  The roads are nothing short of brutal in a lot of cases, and the driving is as described earlier in this post.

Spokey - I only refered to that as you mentioned your displeasure at doing 30mph on the Motorway.  Seeing as this thread started of as traffic police bashing, I thought that it was appropriate.  Obviously I was wrong.

Impairment - Fatigue is one of them.
It does not figure in the top ten causation factors in fatal collisions

how is this worked out if the driver is killed when he fell asleep at the wheel.

back to the thread. one third down to speed !

surely marked police cars would deter a majority of the 2 thirds you site that are not speed related?

TRACKPIG wrote: a marked car stops the speeding in the first place. an unmaked car rakes the cash in.

My initial point exactly.

one rule for them comes to mine spokey.

Figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that 303 officers from the Dyfed-Powys, Gwent and North Wales forces received fixed penalties for exceeding statutory speed limits. But only 29 cases - less than one in 10 - resulted in a fine being paid.

In some cases the documentation about what happened to the officers disappeared completely and outcomes in a further eight cases, in the three force areas, are still "pending".

The RAC Foundation last night said the results showed some police forces were over-using the exemption powers and suggested some police officers believed they had "carte blanche" to break the speed limit regardless of whether they were on a 999 call

livvy wrote: whitey wrote: TRACKPIG wrote: a marked car stops the speeding in the first place. an unmaked car rakes the cash in.     My initial point exactly. If you agree that marked Police cars can influence behaviour, equally not having a marked car present can mean compliance with rules is less likely. How does a marked car encourage compliance ? Point 1. It's because people are worried about being caught. Point 2. After all the idea is to encourage compliance all of the time, not just when a marked Police car is around. Point 3. Of course if you don't braek the law, marked car OR unmarked car is of no consequence or concern to you.

Point 1. Exactly right. We are worried about being caught but unmarked Impreza's is not playing cricket old boy.

Point 2. get more marked cars out there with the tax payers money and you'll get less speeding and less deaths on your stats. Unmarked cars generate income and DO NOT save lives........end of!

Point 3. Can you honestly say you've NEVER broken the law by speeding? And of course what my tax is used for will always be of consequence to me.

Call me a cynical old git (I'm a 42 Year old Manager for the main Comms supplier in the UK thats been driving for 24 years and covers in excess of 25k a year) but just like the camera argument, this is all about generating income. When they started hiding cameras behind trees, signs etc. my respect for the police plumetted. It was all about revenue. Thats now (thank the lord) had a stop put to it. So should the use of unmarked high performance cars used for speeding offences. It's underhand and the money spent on these cars should be used to raise the profile of the Police by putting them in marked cars.

That's it from me.

The Metropolitan Police recorded the highest number of offences - 25,486 - but only 16 officers were convicted.

not just a few case files missing livvy!!

Essex police took the unprecedented step of holding a special court for 150 motorists who have all been caught speeding at more than 100mph on the same four lane stretch of the A130 Rettendon by-pass in recent weeks.

its a shame joe public does'nt get the same heart warming feeling when you read things like this.

In the first 40 cases magistrate Sheena Collins imposed driving bans of up to 49 days and fines of up to £700 on the procession of motorists who appeared before her.

Manchester Police's traffic chief will keep his job after being caught speeding at 104 mph.
Mr Thomas appeared before North Staffordshire magistrates yesterday. He received six penalty points and was fined £450.

nice to see consistency in the old boys club then!

In my experience with a clean licence & 104mph on a motorway (without any other adverse conditions) you are unlikely to get banned in most cases.

depending on where you live and your profession,!!

Guidelines state anyone doing over 100mph should be disqualified for a period unless there are exceptional circumstances.

being late for a meeting is not exceptional !