A query for you all to ponder over.

I have just bought a new water pump (OEM) for my E39 from Euro Car Parts for the sum of £37.71 inc vat.  Henry Bros want £70.50 for a BMW one.

Looking at in the box, I have measured the spaces between the 4 bolt holes that secure the pulley onto the hub.  The 4 holes are not located at the corners of a square but at the corners of a rectangle. Two of the bolts holes are the same distance from the centre of the pump spindle which id different from the other two.

This means that the water pump pulley can only be bolted to the hub in two positions and not four.

This seems a bit strange to me as I would have thought the bolt holes would all be at the same distance radially from the centre of the pump spindle but they are not on this new pump.

I was under the impression that my car has the bolt holes at the same spacings.

Can anyone confirm this before I go and strip out the old pump tomorrow morning?

Andrew

no they are not equal about the centre.

they are grouped holes, rotate thro' 90 degrees and it fits.

Thanks Sleeper.

I phoned up ECP and they told me it was the correct pump for all 6 pot M52 BMW engines regardless of age. I am aware that there is a change of things in Sep 1998 which is just after my build date so I was worried I may have a slightly different pump but I don't so everything is tickety boo!

Andrew 

no sweat - I did one last weekend and went through the same thing!!

Cheers!

sleeper wrote: no sweat - I did one last weekend and went through the same thing!! Cheers!

Any other special tips as to how to get the viscous fan off i.e how to stop the hub from turning, apart from hit the spanner with a hammer to try and shock it off?  Which is what you told me last time I asked.

The reason I was checking about the bolt centres is that I was thinking of making a tool up from flat bar to hold the pulley still while heaving on the hub nut.

Andrew

Just had a look at the car while out feeding the greedy parking meter that greed Glasgow City Council have installed out side my office and sure enough the water pump pulley hub bolts are located on a rectangular pattern.

You learn summat new every day!

Andrew

tips, err the one I've just done wouldn't knock off with t'hammer either  so I locked the pulley with a big flat-blade screwdriver and tapped it off.

...and yes, I am an octopus! (it is possible)

BTW - I use a ground-down sink spanner from B&Q - big cast alloy fella, and it works a treat!

Well I tried yesterday for nearly 2 hours trying to 'tap off' the viscous coupling.  Gave up in the end  so I didn't get my new thermostat, cover and water pump in place but I did manage to renew about half the coolant.

I tried to lock the pulley with a screwdriver between the pulley bolts but I used a thin diameter one so it wouldn't foul the spanner on the hub and it bent then snapped in two!

Sleeper, how exactly did you lock the pulley hub?

My dad suggested looking for a different tool to take the nut off,  I'll have a look for that sink spanner from B&Q.  I presume you ground it down in terms of width?

I'll have a hunt on the old t'interweb for specialist tools.

Andrew

andrew, I have done 8 of these waterpumps and only had one difficult one - I guess you are unlucky!

the sink spanner is gound down to about 4 mm thick, which allows me to get a big flathead screwdriver on the pulley bolts.

Believe me, use the biggest hammer you have got!

If its really tricky, get an assistant if you can, and one that has hand insurance! pity you are right up the other end of the UK - email me if you need more help....

Thanks guys,

I was hitting it in the correct direction,  Left hand thread and all that, me and the old boy, striking the end of the viscous spanner with a 2lbs hammer and nowt.  Stuck fast.

Andrew

gilescooperuk wrote: I don't have one of these cars but.... why not undo the pump bolts and remove the pump and the fan at the same time, then with the now scrap pump on the bench separate it by clamping the impeller in a vice so it can't twist. Just seems that if you are taking the pump off why fuss with trying to remove the fan in the engine bay. Giles

You can't get to the water pump to block bolts as these are hidden behind the water pump pulley.  You can't remove the water pump pulley without first removing the viscous fan coupling I'm afraid.

In other words

Have a look at your 1989 525i E34 and you will see what I mean.  It will be of similar construction I would think to my M52 lump on my E39.

Andrew

try some 'plus-gas' disassembly spray, works on everything...

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=7973 - http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=7973

easily done though chas, especially working from below....

I have now bought http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/s.nl/sc.9/category.216/it.A/id.16552/.f - this tool to use next Saturday morning.  Is this what you were referring to Nick? I just need to wait and see when Mister Postman delivers it!

If this one fails I think I might have to end up buying http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/s.nl/sc.9/category.1817/it.A/id.26887/.f - this tool which you can get from good old ECP even cheaper than on here.

Andrew

PS if the second one fails I think I mights have to end up buying another E39 at this rate! 

Chas C wrote: Makes you wonder if someone previously tried to remove it assuming it was a normal thread...

Doubt it.   The previous owner was religious in getting everything done at BMW, even tyres.  I have all the receipts for everything and they are all BMW and none of them are for work which would have required removal of the fan.  I would like to assume that if BMW had a shot at removing it they would have done it correctly. 

Emm maybe not going by my experience of my Local Main $tealer!

I think with nearly 8 years of 6 cylinder heat the nut has welded itself to the pulley spindle.  It will of course not been greased when it was assembled by BMW.  Had the nut been greased then I bet there would not be this problem.  Any nut or bolt I remove from any car gets greased before it gets put back.

Andrew

How about heating the nut up briefly with a butane blowtorch or similar, just to allow the nut to swell a little. If your careful, kind of wave the flame about quite a bit it should be ok (not setting fire to your beloved car I mean)

Thanks for that Bill.

I did wonder about wafting a heat source over it.  I would be tempted to do this if I was replacing the viscous coupling so if I damaged it, there wouldn't be a problem.  However Mister Postman delivered http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/s.nl/sc.9/category.216/it.A/id.16552/.f - this yesterday so I may be able to try it before the next assault on the nut this Saturday!

Andrew

Psyching myself up for tomorrows assault on the viscous fan nut!

Wish me luck!

Andrew

Thanks Dave.  I'll try out my tool and let you know how I get on.

I'm thinking trolley jack and a piece of timber to apply hydraulic pressure so it a constant force on the spanner handle.  Sounds complicated but I have a picture of how I'm going to do it my head!

Your car, being a year newer may make all the difference between a seized nut and one that will come off more easily!

Andrew

PS the weather looked good and the fiancé even said she would come out 'to hold something' if required!

Well.....

Dragged myself out of bed at 9 am, went out to the car just after 9 am to commence battle with the viscous fan coupling nut.  Armed with my new Draper tool, (working from the engine compartment, car on its wheels with me facing the fan) I got it located on two water pump pulley bolts at the 3 o'clock position and put the viscous coupling spanner on the nut from the 9 o'clock position and with a big heave with both arms upwards, I shot backwards away from the car.....

Thinking I had just had one of the tools slipped off I went back for another look at to my surprise I had loosened the nut.  

It just came of with a heave, no hammers or anything!

I was back in the house for a cup of tea by 10 past 9!

I had done it in less than 5 minutes, what me and the old boy had tried to do in 1.5 hours a week ago.

Fan came off, fan cowling came off. Had to de-ice the car so ran the engine before driving her up on the ramps and water was also coming out the stat O ring and dripping onto the crank angle sensor.  Not good. 

Drained the radiator with the heater fan on to try and pump out as much old coolant from the heater matrix. 

Removed the water pump by jacking it out from the block with 2 M6 bolts as per Haynes Comic Book followed by about 3.5 litres of coolant from the top of the block and head! 

Thermostat housing came out and I saw that the seal had well and truly failed, no wonder I was loosing water!  I had to prise the thermostat out.  The stat was rather worryingly coated in wax.  The thing must have started to leak out its wax which would explain why I thought I had a bit of a lazy stat, i.e. opening too early and not getting enough heat into the heater.

I put a smear of petroleum jelly on the rubber seals of the water pump, thermostat housing seal and the stat O ring before re-assembly.

I then noticed how easy the radiator would come out so that was removed from the car and back flushed with a garden hose, bit of sludge came out but I was more concerned with the build up of leaves and muck in the radiator fins so I brushed that clean under running water. 

All went back together with no problems.  I filled the system with the heater on to try and avoid air locks.  I filled it thru the bleed screw on the stat housing rather than the expansion tank cap. I used 50-50 mix antifreeze, Mobil 1 stuff that was recently buy 2 and get 1 free from Halfrauds.  Meets all the right numbers and standards that BMW say in the cars handbook.

All back together and ready to start her up.  Turned key and nothing.... I had sodding well drained the battery with having the heater on to power the auxiliary pump in an effort to avoid air locks. 

After all that I couldn't start it! D'oh.

Jump start later and no leaks anywhere, no air could be bled out the bleed screws and the heater is now seriously hot when set at 32 deg!

Nice and warm on the way to work this morning.  Heater is now hot enough for me at 24 deg instead of the more recent 28 deg!

Problem solved.  I am happy (and warm) now.  Just the front brakes to do and get a new battery!

Thanks for all your tips and suggestions guys.

Andrew

Nice one Andrew.

One thing I've learned over the last few years is that there's no substitute for the right tools.

Glad you've got it sorted - must be very satisfying.

No you are spot on Dave. 

When I first got my E39 17 months ago, I could tell where I would be on my journey by looking at the temp gauge.  By the end of my estate it would be out of the blue and then by the junction with the main road it would be a certain position and then I knew exactly where on the dual carriageway it would at the 12 o'clock position.  This happened regardless of the time of year.

When I saw my temp gauge do something different, I knew my stat was on the way out.  And sure enough on removing the old stat on Saturday, it had leaked wax and was more than on it's way out.

I reckon my problems started at the end of October when I heard gurgling noises from deep in the dash, which will have been an air lock in the heater matrix.  This wasn't helped or was indeed caused by the fact that air could get in and coolant could get out from the thermostat housing. I noticed this leak at the end of November.  I then didn't loose to much coolant during December but kept a close eye on it.

Referring back to earlier posts.  It does absolutely pay to have the right tool for the job.  When both me and my dad struggled last weekend hitting it with a 2lbs lump hammer, my dad was saying that we should not have to hit a Precision (German) Engineered Car with a club hammer!  - Correct tool next weekend - 5 mins later - fan off!

Andrew

My fan was tightened up to the following torque -

"yup that feels about right torque"!

What is the point giving you a torque setting on a nut which you can't actually measure it using any available to buy torque wrenches?

Does that mean we should hang a 4 kg weight from the end of a 1 m long spanner to get the 40Nm torque.  I think not.

Andrew

My stats gone in my e39 as well. Surely BMW must recognise that they've manufactured a crap part and give some sort of gratuity payment. I've heard of so many M52 lumps this year with the same problem. 

I'll get round to changing it soon as it needs to be sold.

Very nice picture Dave.

I can tell that you will be a great contributor < spell... to this forum

Andrew thank you for your indepth thoughts and actions.  This Kind of post must help people ALL OVER THE WORLD I mean lets face it we are on the world wide web he he

And Andrew I remember your posts from october, many things, just now, slot in to place

Ta

Bill

Dave E wrote: Good point whitey, I will take this photo to Robertt Stern in the first instance then go on from there to BMW UK if necessary.  Dave E E39 M52

Let me know how you get on. To be honest theres a couple of points on e39's that BMW should recognise as drop offs. The other that springs to mind is the dashboard pixels! Mine had a new dash at just on 3 years old in April 2003. I noticed the other day that one of the digits in the trip mileage is now missing a couple of pixels. Thats 2 years 9 months and only 16000 miles!! Surely that's not acceptable either?

Trevor

Bill- wrote: Very nice picture Dave. I can tell that you will be a great contributor < spell... to this forum Andrew thank you for your indepth thoughts and actions.  This Kind of post must help people ALL OVER THE WORLD I mean lets face it we are on the world wide web he he And Andrew I remember your posts from october, many things, just now, slot in to place   Ta   Bill

Thanks Bill.  I should really write it up and put it into the How To Do Section that was made recently. 

Erm what posts of mine from October are you referring to? 

I can't remember!  I didn't post as much back then as I was sitting my professional exam - which I passed and therefore qualify for a Company Car  OR the cash equivalent  so I can keep my E39 in bits like the water pump, stat and all the tools I need to do it with!

I think I did complain about hearing a gurgling noise back in October but I put that down to the fact that I had just been on holiday to the wettest part of the UK I have ever been to and it wasn't up here in Scotland but, The Lake District!

But the gurgling noise was back yesterday, I then did top the level up in the expansion tank last night.  Hopefully it is just the last of the air working itself out.  None should be going back in!

Andrew

Dave E wrote: Good point whitey, I will take this photo to Robertt Stern in the first instance then go on from there to BMW UK if necessary. Dave E E39 M52

That will be the housing from a M54 engine.  How did you find taking on and off the clip on hose connections?

I was reading the Haynes Comic book the other night about the job I had done on Saturday.  Believe me the Haynes Comic Book made more sense AFTER I had done the work myself.  The job looks a lot more complicated on the M54 blocks than it was on my M52 block.  What is your opinion on that Dave.  You have to faff about with the expansion tank, the auxiliary pump under the rad and there looks like there is less room to work in due to the double vanos unit?  Hmm.  I do fancy a 530i next which would be an M54 engine but that M52 lump I have was nice and easy to work on.

Andrew

Yup you are right. The bit in the Haynes Comic Book is for M52TU and M54 engines with the first bit being on the M52 engine.  I was being forgetful earlier on!  I thought you had a 520i with a 2.2 litre 170 bhp engine but not if it is built in 1998!

Brain now in gear!

The picture above, is that during tightening or loosening procedure?  I had the tools swapped about during loosening and yanked them both up wards with success.  I actually put more effort in pulling up on the pulley holding tool and held the spanner still in my left hand.  The pulley holding tool has the longer lever so was easier to use.

In your photo, bottom left just below the right hand end of the rad hose you see an electrical connector.  The aforementioned book of parodies refers to this as an AUC Sensor (and tells you to remove it from the cowling before removal) but it does not tell you what it is for or what it does. Any ideas anyone?

Andrew

Dave,

I don't have an auxiliary pump under my radiator. Hmmmm?

I do have some form of a pump under my heater valves which is what I was running in an effort to minimise air locks on draining and re-filling the system when I drained my battery.  Do you have a pump under your heater valves in addition to the pump under your radiator?

Andrew