hi all

spent a long day with paul new years day after he had asked if i would look at some surface problems on paint of his sport evo

only had the one day whereas id have liked to have spent 3 and i know i could take the finish on the car another level but we achieved a lot

car was prepped with porter cable dual action orbital and zaino products

car has one coat of zaino z2 pro and one misting spray coat of z8 finale spray

paul is a really nice guy.a genuine enthusiast .we were both happy with results.

first before prep

now pictures taken today outside and bear in mind how murky it has been so there is no brilliant sunshine aiding rflections and also these are next day and a little dust had settled

prob going to get told off about size of images i apologise but i think they are worth viewing i have reduced them massively

john

Thanks John!

Steve, Satin is for sheets! . There seemed to be alot of confusion on how "satin" the skirts should be, so I decided to go all glossy, and to be honest, I think it looks much better than satin. Not for a black car in my opinion.

Brian, there were a few problems starting to appear with the top coat about the time you saw the car, and have tried different things, and people to try and sort it. Only John was able to sort it. I have to say that the car was nearing being stripped again for another re-paint, except it was going to be the paint manufacturers who were going to repaint it. As it is now, John has done a fantastic job on the car, and as long as I use all the zaino products he recommends and uses, the car will stay looking the same, if not better than it does now.

John, as I've said on the E30Zone site, you are a star. I know you only had the car for a day, but you are welcome to spend as much time as you like on it.

After seeing the results, I have ordered alot of zaino products to maintain the finish. We had a customer today who thought the car was brand new, untill he saw the number plates already fitted. That is great testimony to Johns hard work and zaino's products.

John.......I don't know how you did it, you were there from 8am untill 6pm and you didn't use the toilet once!

That is one good looking car.

That garage in the background looks like the one near the Castle Combe circuit

Karl

Karlp wrote: That is one good looking car. That garage in the background looks like the one near the Castle Combe circuit Karl

Karl, that's where I work. It looks a bit of a "dump" but its a great garage really, honest. This is where you will have to meet me with your washer bottle!

Paul.

JC , e30 m3 wrote: Fantastic job! In the first picture, is that a coating of dust or was the paint really as bad as it looked? I'd love my car to look that good but really don't know which products to use, do I really have to spend £100's on waxes etc..? I do have a rotary buffing machine (Halfords Cheapy Special) Any tips? I think I know it's going to involve copious amounts of elbow grease...... Cheers

unfortunately you really do get what you pay for

the halfords cheapies are not doing this level of finish........no way

this is using an american branded product manufactured by PORTER CABLE

incredible kit tho only available in 110v.this with the right pads etc and transformer you are looking at roughly 200 quid

swirl removers,sealants/polish microfibre etc etc about another 150 quid i guess

its not cheap but the finish speaks for itself.ive had my porter 5 years now and its best thing ive ever bought.it is not like a mop which can be dangerous to say the least as they spin in same position at massively high speeds and heat can burn thru paint in seconds

i defy anyone to damage paint with porter.

john

Jamie, yes there was dust settled on the 1st pic, but you can see some of the surface scratching there.

SHEPSM3 wrote: Karlp wrote: That is one good looking car. That garage in the background looks like the one near the Castle Combe circuit Karl Karl, that's where I work. It looks a bit of a "dump" but its a great garage really, honest. This is where you will have to meet me with your washer bottle! Paul.

That is no problem then - I sometimes even go to Merlin Motorsport on a Saturday.

Karl

BMG M3 wrote: Do you only use the Porter Cable several times a year, or is it safe to use all the time ?

John uses the Porter Cable all the time, even when applying the polish. So it seems it is totally safe to use it at all times.

Karl, pop in and say hi, anytime. I am there most Saturdays.

BMG M3 wrote: Do you only use the Porter Cable several times a year, or is it safe to use all the time ?

primarily you use it to repair imperfections like swirls,spiderwebs,marring

damage caused by sponges,chamois etc

avoid chamois and sponge and you will anaoid countless damage to your paint

so car would be done initially to remove all these.cars pick up marks and therefore you may spot repair

but you can and i do apply polish with it

you use several different grades of pads with it and one is specifically non abrasive and allows you to apply polish far better than by hand due to the fact the least polish you use the better and the hand cannot replicate the thinness that is achievable by the machine

it is very versatile

i even polish glass with it.

but once you have done your initial pass and rid all the real nasties and you are happy with paint surface then as far as using it abrasively you would only spot repair and maybe every 12 months do a total pass over all panels.

prep is the key and the longer spent getting surface right the better the finish once your chosen polish/wax has been applied

john

I called in on the morning when John was starting Paul's car, and I couldn't believe how badly scratched the paint surface was, the swirl marks in the paint were horrendous, and there were other various marks that I was pointing out, and Paul would explain that was were a leaf landed etc! All up the O/S of the car, there were some really bad scratches running up the length of the car, and Paul explained this was caused by the bushes at the side of his drive.

As Paul said, he couldn't wash or polish the car for more bad scratches appearing constantly, and if it was me, I would have lost my patience with it, but John saved the day, and did a brill job with it and boosted Pauls love for the car!

Paul & Jon,

That car looks absolutely fabulous!  I cannot believe the surface finish, it's just amazing.

Jon - you mention that chammies and sponges cause swirls when washing - what should we be using to wash the car then?  I have a black SE just like Pauls (well, just like Paul's USED TO BE!) and have recently had it repainted, and I'm anxious not to spoil the pait if I can avoid it.  What would you advise?

Congrats though, that is truly stunning.

c76jon wrote: damage caused by sponges,chamois etc avoid chamois and sponge and you will anaoid countless damage to your paint     john

John you results look very impressive. Well done.

 When you mention avoiding using a sponge and chamois what is the alternative please? In regard to the sponge I've been using a lambswool type mitt.

oops, I guess I should stop using the scouring pad....

Great work john, I assume you do this professionally?

hi all

thanks for comments

i dont do this professionally.its a passion and a continual learning curve

iam a bit of a perfectionist and that drives me to achieve the bestpossible finish

for non damage cars should be washed,dried with top qulaity microfibre

polish applied with and taken off with microfibre

i am able to obtain microfibre  from the best supplier in usa

his towels are tested on blank cdrs to make sure they will not eave any mark on a cars surface

6 weeks ago i did a group buy on e30zone and peoples feedback was amazing

iam gearing up to do another

if anyones interested then let me know

i know you can buy microfibre from halfords and the pound shop but you can buy oil off the market and then you can buy quality oil

its just the same.there are massive differences in quality

john

there is no zymol on my car

zymol use waxes ie carnuba wax and its not very resiliant to the elements in comparison to synthetic sealants

post some pics when its done.

oh and 200 pounds is pretty cheap

john

Just been on the zaino website. Prices are vey good indeed. They offer a pack with most of the products in it for about 116usd except the z8 product. I take it these are the correct products John. Also have you ever used these products without the porter cable and is there a great difference with the outcome. I think as they seem so reasonable I will opt for the DIY option.

Adrian  

unfortunately you have looked at us site

they will not post to anywhere but usa

you have to thru uk distibutor here

http://http://www.advancedcarproducts.com/products.asp?cat=11 - http://http://www.advancedcarproducts.com/products.asp?cat=1 1

zaino works well by hand

but its all down to the prep this is what makes the difference

zpc can be used by hand but not as effectively as by machine

this is what removes swirls etc

this is only zaino product that is abrasive ie capable of removing blemishes etc

all other products are non abrasive and just enhance the surface you have prepped

john

I have used Zymol/Swissol for some years now, and always start off by claying the car first.  I use the products exactly as directed.  My cars look really good, but nothing like Paul's Sport Evo.  That is in a whole different league. 

I didn't see Paul's car "before", but frankly if it had been in showroom condition, then the pics we have here are miles better than that.

Whether it is the superiority of the Zaino product, or using the Porter Cable, or a bit of both I don't know, but you'll never get rid of swirls and scratches with clay and Zymol.

I don't know what you do for a living Jon, but seems like there's the potential of a fair few motors here!  You could name your price.

Thank you everyone for your comments, Car still under shelter at my place of work, still makes me feel excited inside when I see it, you can't miss it!  

It still looks as good as when John left. Yes it pays to have a skill John, in case something happens with the dayjob!

Sam, your SE looks stunning in your signature pics! Doesn't look like it needs any work? Johns hard work, and the products he used really did make the difference.

hi all

clay is amazing.it will remove allsorts from surface that you cant even see.it does leave the surface incredibly smooth and i use it a lot

its ideal to use on a swirl free finish because there is no point using abrasive if there are no marks to remove

but as already said it will not remove swirls,spider webs etc

zymol make some very very good products(except stuff sold at halfords) and their waxes are based around carnuba

i have their concours wax here.yes it gives a nice finish but imho nowhere near that of zaino.its quite a personal thing whether you like wax or not but for me their are too many downsides

i dont like the oiliness they can leave

the longevity of the finish is very short lived

the protection they offer is not in my mind comparable to a synthetic ie against salt,rain,sun etc

they are very high maintenance too with regards to keeping that just waxed look

wax has been around for a lot of years and it will always be around but i dont think it can perform as well or give the results zaino can

john

Thanks for the website John. Think i will order a few bits and pieces.

So to start is using a machine the only way to go to remove the swirl marks.

If you dont mind I would like to know your opinion on what products and procedures to go for if to be done manually with the cars paint currently in average condition.

thanks, Adrian 

you can remove swirls by hand

but it is a labourious job .all depends how bad they are.

you can never replicate with your hand what can be done by machine so quickly and continually and in such an even manner

i have done cars by hand.i had a black rs1600i back in the day which i went onto show.

6 weeks it took me every night after work.i swore id never have a dark car again!!!

i got there in the end and it did look good but it was hard work.

all depends how much you are prepared to work at it.as i keep saying its all in the prep

john

Mr London wrote: Hi all Slightly confused.  Am I reading this right that the car in question has been cut back / polished to provide the truly stunning finish - and not repainted??!?! Regards

The car was re-painted nearly a year ago (March). I finally got the car back in August, went to the SW meet in Wales where the car was stunning. From then on, it went down hill. I polished and polished the car, and put alot of swirl marks in the paintwork. The more I polished, the worse it got.

Car was taken back to the bodyshop a couple of months ago. They said there was a problem with the top coat, and put me in contact with the paint manufacturer, who at the end of the day would probably have repainted the car, The b/shop buffed and polished the car and it returned like new again, untill 2 days later when I saw the car in direct sunlight and it looked awfull. I never touched the car from the its return from the b/shop and got very, very depressed to say the least.

On the verge of calling the paint manufacturer and have them strip, repaint and refit the car again (depressing prospect) and wondering if I should cut my losses and sell up, I spoke to John after reading some of his posts about detailling. The rest is history, and the pics speak for themselves. Whatever I seemed to do to the paint to sort the scratches, etc, just seemed to make things alot worse. Johns Microfibre cloths never marked the paint atal, no matter how hard you pressed on them.

The rest, John has explained. I would have really liked John to have spent even more time on the car, and take it to another level, as he says he could. His Evo2 is still in another league, and just shows what can be done with alot of hard work and persistance.

Another thing with the "waxes" being talked about on here, I found that dust sticks to it, whereas the dust which has settled on my car since John did his stuff, can be blown off with ease (breath) Now thats good.

group buy im very interested and what zanio products should i use on a white m3 to get the best finish after i have clayed it  z-2pro or z-3

alexm3uk

That is a really extraordinary finish. Imagine turning up to view this 16year old car as a purchase!

The car detailing arena is perplexing to me and raises as many questions for which I can find no answers - a bit like the pros and cons of semi synthetic engine oil verses synthetic...........!!!!

What dissapoints me with the polishing mularky is how little time the wax lasts verses the effort required to apply. To completely Zymol my M3 (not a large car) thats wash, clay, cleanse and wax is a full and hard days graft and does not include the shuts/engine bay!

With a weekly wash it will need a rewax in shall we say 6 weeks?, you can tell its fading by the little black tar bits that you notice no longer wash off like after the first wash (following a wax).

However back to the Zaino products I havent absorbed it all (so apologies for possible incorrections) but I think I noticed 'abrasive' - surely not good for cars without new paint? and 'synthetic' wax which I understand is a car painters nightmare as the silicone penetrates the paint right through to the metal and makes it very difficult to apply new paint (should it become necessary).

I would love to hear John Drakes (Zymol) opinion on what has been done to at least help those like me who flounder against the tide of options. I'll send him an email and ask if he would care to comment.... 

Richard von Bat wrote: That is a really extraordinary finish. Imagine turning up to view this 16year old car as a purchase! The car detailing arena is perplexing to me and raises as many questions for which I can find no answers - a bit like the pros and cons of semi synthetic engine oil verses synthetic...........!!!! What dissapoints me with the polishing mularky is how little time the wax lasts verses the effort required to apply. To completely Zymol my M3 (not a large car) thats wash, clay, cleanse and wax is a full and hard days graft and does not include the shuts/engine bay! With a weekly wash it will need a rewax in shall we say 6 weeks?, you can tell its fading by the little black tar bits that you notice no longer wash off like after the first wash (following a wax). However back to the Zaino products I havent absorbed it all (so apologies for possible incorrections) but I think I noticed 'abrasive' - surely not good for cars without new paint? and 'synthetic' wax which I understand is a car painters nightmare as the silicone penetrates the paint right through to the metal and makes it very difficult to apply new paint (should it become necessary). I would love to hear John Drakes (Zymol) opinion on what has been done to at least help those like me who flounder against the tide of options. I'll send him an email and ask if he would care to comment....

you raise some good points

to which some have been answered in the thread as a whole

firstly you are quite correct in saying zymol deteriorates quite quickly imho i would say that 6 weeks is very generous

i have seen WAXES lose their impact in 36 hours.iam not implying that is the case with zymol.zymol is a quality product without a doubt but the nature of wax is that it is not resiliant to the elements which will explain why your wax needs rapplying so frequently

carnuba wax is loved by many many car enthusiasts and many of these will wax their car weekly and therefore the loss of impact in 6 weeks like you say is not an issue

you then go on to talk about abrasives not being good to car finishes

i have stated earlier in th thread that zaino only make1 abrasive product which is zpc

this has only been available for a short time

zaino is primarily a sealant system that is applied to a surface that has been prepped to the owners level of finish

zaino relaesed zpc after a long time developing it as they felt they had a product that was far better than 99 percent of the swirl mark removers that were on the market and were being used before application of their other products

i use zpc.its very very good.if it wasnt i would continue to use 3M smr which is also very good and probably was the best until zpc came along.i still use 3M smr and always will because i have a lot of experience with it and i know what it will do and what it wont

abrasives on paint are nothing to be scared of i can assure you.

your car paint has a great deal of abrasives on it before it was delivered to the dealer and even more after by the 17 year old "valeter" who helped with the pdi!!

the abrasives iam talking about are incredibly fine.

no one would flinch at using a spot of t cut or some autoglym restoring polish or even zymol HD cleanse

barring the zymol the t cut and the autoglym are 20 times more abrasive than anything i would put on mine or anybody elses car

the word abrasive conjours up the image of massive amounts of paint being gouged off to eventually getting to a new layer of paint under the old tatty one almost like a snake shedding its skin

this is not the case at all.the fineness of the top abrasives i use and the speed with lack of heat build up the porter cable creates thru the way it operates along with the correct grade and high quality of the finishing pad used means that the edges of the swirl marks are very very gradually worked down until there is no longer a mark because the laquer/paint is now level

swirls/marring are simply very very light marks in the finish

another point you make is that you are worried about the synthetic qualities of zaino creating non paintable panels

i agree with you about silicone.i hate the stuff .its adetailers nightmare .you are assuming synthetic means it automatically consists of or contains silicone.it does not. the two do not mean the same.

zaino contains zero silicone in any of its products

they are very very largely water based

john

stunning results-but whats wrong with a £6 bottle of turtlewax and an oily rag?

coates wrote:   stunning results-but whats wrong with a £6 bottle of turtlewax and an oily rag?

The sunlight will show you whats wrong with that, Mine looked great out of the sun, but horrific in the sun. Now it looks great in both. Try it! BTW, your's does look great in the pic

Richard von Bat wrote: That is a really extraordinary finish. Imagine turning up to view this 16year old car as a purchase!

Are you saying you would walk away from such a car?

billgates e30 wrote: SHEPSM3 wrote: BTW, your's does look great in the pic it looks good in the flesh too

GREAT!

SHEPSM3 wrote: coates wrote:   stunning results-but whats wrong with a £6 bottle of turtlewax and an oily rag? The sunlight will show you whats wrong with that, Mine looked great out of the sun, but horrific in the sun. Now it looks great in both. Try it! BTW, your's does look great in the pic

i would consider using zaino products and have been looking on the advancecarproducts site, if i bought the z2 pro polish would i also have the buy the  ZFX Flash Cure Accelerator Additive(as it recommends) considering my paint is in good condition?

SHEPSM3 wrote: Richard von Bat wrote: That is a really extraordinary finish. Imagine turning up to view this 16year old car as a purchase! Are you saying you would walk away from such a car?

No,. I think he just means that any buyer would be gobsmacked and think that they were buying a brand new car!

Rags wrote: SHEPSM3 wrote: Richard von Bat wrote: That is a really extraordinary finish. Imagine turning up to view this 16year old car as a purchase! Are you saying you would walk away from such a car?   No,. I think he just means that any buyer would be gobsmacked and think that they were buying a brand new car!

Yep that is how I read it to , as a well deserved compliment .

Outstanding finish Well done

cheers

Andy

Just to help here's a link one of our Northern members issued in April and what to do to obtain discount off the site for their products plus some photo's of a black 535d and a silver 323 which also had been treated to the Zaino effect

Hope it helps ! - Happy Polishing

http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=16804&KW=ZAINO - http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=16804&a mp;KW=ZAINO

andyclient wrote: Rags wrote: SHEPSM3 wrote: Richard von Bat wrote: That is a really extraordinary finish. Imagine turning up to view this 16year old car as a purchase! Are you saying you would walk away from such a car?   No,. I think he just means that any buyer would be gobsmacked and think that they were buying a brand new car! Yep that is how I read it to , as a well deserved compliment . Outstanding finish Well done cheers Andy

Got my Porter Cable today! Not that my sport needs it, but I have a few others that do . That was ordered Tuesday (USA) and delivered to my door today. Brilliant service. But looking for that 110v transformer now. I understand I would need one upto 1000watts (recommended by the Porter Cable suppliers) So ebay it is then

Hi Sheps,

can I have the porter details too.

Thanks

John

215DMX wrote: Just seen this http://www.advancedcarproducts.com Looking at the prices as compared to the US site, another case of rip off Britain!

Hi - as one of the partners of Advanced car Products, allow me to explain/defend this...

I've been using Zaino for years, always buying from the German distributor, who runs it as a very pert-time business, and there's no on-line ordering etc. We contacted Sal Zaino to see if we could start a UK distributorship. The answer initially was a flat 'no - we already have european distribution'. Anyway, suffice to say that we managed to persuade Sal eventually.

In the US, Sal sells direct to the public. There's no middle man and no layers of supply chain to add margins at every level. In other words, it's pretty cheap in the US. We then have to ship it in fairly large quantities (investment), stock it, run a website, run a company, etc etc etc. Oh, and make a profit if we can!

ideally, we'd like our margins to be much higher - they would be if we sold other brands, but Zaino is the best, and our aim was to being it to the UK, offer excellent customer service through a secure online shop and stock the full range.

We do offer 5% discounts to various forums - BMWCC is one of them, as is detailingworld.co.uk.

It's not any cheaper in the UK than buying from Germany or US, but then how could it be? 

Hopefully, you'll agree that far from 'rip-off Britian', a small company of enthusuasts have put our money where our mouths are and got the brilliant range of Zaino products into the UK.

Anything you can do to support us would be great - the more we sell, the better business case we can put to Sal and the better prices we can negotiate over time.

Rob

Eamo wrote: Jon Is the the porter cable you use? http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2805 - click here

hi

yes that will do niceley

best price i can get is 111 quid to your door including vat paid so no horrible extra duty

john

John,

nice work!

Paul,

What a finish! Your car is almost complete now. Keep up the good work.

Karn 

Porter cable products here seam reasonable enough

http://www.maxtool.co.uk/hmpg/porter-cable/porter-cable_power_tools.htm - http://www.maxtool.co.uk/hmpg/porter-cable/porter-cable_powe r_tools.htm

and that model looks cheap at only £83.00

Just noticed this is a US site but priced in Pound Sterling ? 

trackM3 wrote: Porter cable products here seam reasonable enough http://www.maxtool.co.uk/hmpg/porter-cable/porter-cable_power_tools.htm - http://www.maxtool.co.uk/hmpg/porter-cable/porter-cable_powe r_tools.htm and that model looks cheap at only £83.00 Just noticed this is a US site but priced in Pound Sterling ?

that is 111 quid delivered from states including vat paid

thats the cheapest

john

autopia are very very good

but be aware you are running the risk of it getting stopped by customs and them adding their duty

dial it into the equation so you know potential cost

john

215DMX wrote: Oh, just the 'polishing/ how to use guide' that I was refering too.

sorry

yes its good.its quite a personal thing tho once you have a go with it yourself.you tend to find what works for you and what doesnt.

john

c76jon wrote: 215DMX wrote: Oh, just the 'polishing/ how to use guide' that I was refering too.   sorry yes its good.its quite a personal thing tho once you have a go with it yourself.you tend to find what works for you and what doesnt.   john

Letting John do it for me is what works for me!