’Evo’ at the Ring
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Category: Technical & Model Specific Forums
Forum Name: BMW ///M Power
Forum Discription: Ask your BMW M Power Technical Questions here (M1, M2 hybrids, M3, M5 & M6)
URL: http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=23864
Printed Date: 09-June-2024 at 12:55
Topic: ’Evo’ at the Ring
Posted By: 215DMX
Subject: ’Evo’ at the Ring
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 08:13
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Just browsed through this months Evo, it seems
they didn't quite manage the quest for under 8minutes for a full lap, they did a best (on a closed track) of 8.23 with Dirk "whatshisname" at the wheel. I think the norm is to minus 20 secs for a B2G time , so that's 8.00 or so ??? I won't say "told you so" nah , I will. Good effort though with a e36 M3 GT. Also lap record broken now set to 6.55 for a road car by a Radical, on trackday tryes, They reckon take off 20-30 sec (i think) for slicks. |
Replies:
Posted By: jpboost
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 08:43
| what's a B2G time? |
Posted By: oola
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 09:14
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Bridge to gantry.
------------- CSL M3 GT ... No. 141 - Gone, but not forgotten |
Posted By: jpboost
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 09:14
| cheers |
Posted By: rr_ww
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 11:16
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When they started this project, I was expecting more. But then as a certain "expert specialist" were involved from the start, maybe I should have known it would be monkey'd together...
Looking at the pics, the car still has an awful lot of interior left and they sound like they had 1 day to get their lap in. I was expecting the car to be virtually race spec with numberplates and a Tax Disc. Also it seems they didnt do any research, just did what they thought would be good modifications. A cold air scoop is a unusual thing to be fitting on the day. And whilst a flat bottom would make a difference, Id say its not something the average person will fit and would need to be part of an entire aero work over, not just bolt it on and hope! ------------- Rich. 
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Posted By: ultegra
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 11:46
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Dirk Schoysman If he couldn't do it then I reckon it was not do-able. See http://www.topline.be/ - HERE ------------- http://members.ebay.co.uk/aboutme/chrisenright - Chris Enright M Coupe Silver ex M Coupe Black ex 318is Silver 318is White ex M3 GT ex 318is Red ex 318is Blue 316i shell - watch this space... 
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Posted By: Pooky
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 15:05
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I think the time was pretty poor, the standard car can do 8.35 to 8.40 I thought. With sticky tyres, more power, less weight it should do better. Proof that fitting some shiny parts does not equal decent car. ------------- 
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Posted By: 215DMX
Date Posted: 03-November-2005 at 15:33
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To put a slight comparison on it I did a very rough
time B2G, while in the passenger seat of one of our German collegues in his e30 m3 of around 8.10 or so... to be honest it's not a bad time at all, that would be around 8.30 for a full lap. All guesstimate of course. |
Posted By: oola
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 04:48
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I was very dissapointed in the whole article, results and content, particularly after last months impressive result at Bedford. As pooky says, all those shiney parts and they only manage to lop 10 seconds off the standard M3 time. Well lets see if they do re-appear next spring ... ------------- CSL M3 GT ... No. 141 - Gone, but not forgotten |
Posted By: UJM3
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 05:36
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Yeah i was dissapointed too.. 23 secs is a long way off the mark.. maybe with a bit more setting up of the suspension etc (and removed the wood interior trim) it would of been better..
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Posted By: oola
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 06:44
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Thats what I thought, they should have had carbon fibre trim like mine, it would have been worth at least 5 seconds a lap!
------------- CSL M3 GT ... No. 141 - Gone, but not forgotten |
Posted By: lancelotII
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 08:27
| I think it may need a bit more than suspension fettling, 23 seconds is a lot to find, mind you the ring is long so that probably equates to a couple of tenths per corner. It would be interesting to see the telemetary, if there is any. I suspect that you spend a lot of time at full throttle, so decreasing the time spent on the long back straight would be the easiest nut to crack but would probably need a shed load of bhp. |
Posted By: UJM3
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 08:36
| more power could be the answer all right.. would of been good if they published the power to weight ratio before and after they started modfiying it.. |
Posted By: Evostick
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 08:40
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As RR_WW said, as soon as I saw that a certain 'expert specialist' was involved I thought that it wouldn't amount to much.... ------------- M = Money 3 = 3 x as much.... |
Posted By: micky_h
Date Posted: 04-November-2005 at 18:09
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Bet they didn't even need to spend that 2.5k that the specialist recomended saying the car was stripped and new suspension, brakes etc were fitted.
In the article Dirk gave his recomendations about how to make the car quicker for the circuit, stuff like fitting a flat underside to the car. |
Posted By: rr_ww
Date Posted: 05-November-2005 at 05:35
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IMO Evo sometimes makes itself look foolish. After reading the Project 8 Min story, I read the Technical questions page. Once again Mr Jeff Daniels, shows he has no knowledge what so ever on certain things, and makes up for it by writing long winded answers.
Take the 3rd question regarding "Why are flat floors so important in F1" Huge long reply which doesnt actually contain any fact! When a hundred pages on or so, Bovingdon, had it licked in 1 paragraph in the M3 piece. Daniels also says that F1 engineers dont want ANY air under the car. Given that ~75% of the downforce comes from the lower pressure created by flat floor. (that surprised me too!) Id say hes wrong! ------------- Rich.
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Posted By: Pooky
Date Posted: 05-November-2005 at 08:21
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He may have a point. The reason flat floors work is because the air travels much faster underneath the car and faster flowing air is at lower pressure. So the air at higher pressure on top of the car pushes it into the ground. Having not read the article he may be suggesting that if there were no air under the car, i.e. a vacuum, then this would give you the most downforce. You also need to be careful how the flow is channelled back into the normal air flow. Venturis increase downforce and reduce drag as the air needs to turn a slight corner which speeds up the flow to lower the air pressure but also narrows the size of the car between top and bottom so you get more pressure recovery (the difference in pressure between the front and back of the car - higher pressure at the front means more drag). -------------
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Posted By: rr_ww
Date Posted: 05-November-2005 at 13:35
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Yes, maybe I over-simplified it a bit.
But hes answering an imaginary question. The question was "Why are flat floors so important in F1" Not, how can you reduce overall drag / improve downforce on a car. So in my basic understanding (im no aerodynamacist) A flat floor is used to speed up the flow of air under the car. Which if used in conjunction with a rear diffuser can actually result in a lower pressure being created under the car. And hence Downforce. If its all lumpy then the air gets trapped and slows down. Creating a higher pressure which results in an "up" force. ------------- Rich.
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Posted By: John-M3
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 12:21
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an 80 kg passenerger in the seat might make about 15s difference. are there online specs/pics for the M3 GT, so I can see how they set it up? John ------------- http://board.s14power.com - s14power.com |
Posted By: 215DMX
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 13:26
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John, pretty basic; stripped out, cage, AP's, AST
suspension (i think) R tryes, engine was standard apart from some induction filter thing. |
Posted By: UweM3
Date Posted: 07-November-2005 at 13:37
80kg looses 15 sec....... better don't tell you my weight or you won't let me in your car again 
------------- E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg..... |
John-M3 wrote: