I've only heard good things, other than the price!

The only BUT being the chap I spoke to said you probably don't feel much benefit on the road but on track at the limit would be a different story. He struck me as a relative novice so without belittling him I guess it was pretty easy to spot the difference.

He was talking E30 M3 by the way.

IMHO I believe the billy/eibach kit is probably a more cost effective improvement.

I'd recommend talking to someone like Nigel at Moseley Motors (01952 503992 )or Barney at Munich Legends (01825 740456) as a minimum, they've tried them all I would imagine.

The Schnitzer kit is a road kit, it won' cut the mustard on the track. Remember that these kind of kits were designed around German roads that don't resemble plowed fields, so in that environment they will work well.

Any suspension upgrade will compromise your ride, stiffer suspension which is an inherrent part of an upgrade will mean a more compromised ride.

Personally, I will never buy any suspension upgrade that is not adjustable. They may be more expensive in the long run but it's cheaper than throwing it all away after 6 months because you can't get it to work how you wan't it.

Lancelot,

I was wondering where you got your coil-over kit from. Could you tell me what it consists of, and also what you have at the front.

Thanks.

jeez Doc... you don't want coil overs.

you can never get them just right, or at least that's what you keep telling yourself and you spend the rest of your life resetting the bu66ers insted of enjoying the thing.

The Schnitzer set is the best comprimise, bar none. But you can get good results with just the right springs and some konis and you get the corner weights done by using different springs... oh and don't forget the neg cam top mounts...sometimes you don't need anything else.

.... after all Doc... it's not like we ever drive flat out in the wet down through Craner!

Nick,

How's tricks? I have the ML Trackmeister stuff on my car. It has negative camber at the front, but just looking at the car, it would appear there is just as much negative camber at the rear probably just due to the thing being lowered.

The reason I was asking Lancelot the question is that I have had a passenger ride in his car at Donington. His car has coil-overs and it really does the bends well, although he is a way better driver than me. He raves about the set-up. However, your point about messing with settings seems valid but this is what Lancelot likes doing. He has racing experience and therefore has experience of setting cars up properly. Me? Well my experience runs to arsing about with my tyre pressures.

For now, I'm happy enough with my set up. Chris Wadseley drove my car around Donington and he said it handled just fine. I'm going to think about big brakes though. As my car is now, I think this would get my car round the circuit quicker than any other development. What do you reckon?

I would agree on the brakes front - big brakes and the balls to watch the guy in front brake then leave it a couple more seconds and then shuv the middle pedal, followed by cornering under ABS...

Of course I did that in my 7 and went spinning merrily across the grass or gravel at Oulton, Llandow, Silverstone and probably a couple of others that I can't remember!

More seriously it does make one of the biggest improvements for a driver learning his track driving ropes (like me) IMO.

Mark,

The best suspension for your needs may well be ACS.

I was talking to Geoff Steel Racing the other day and they seem to have AP Racing big brakes sussed. Give them a ring and ask for Will. He is very clued up about it. They use AP brakes on their race cars in the Khumo Championship, and they have fitted the gear lots of times. If I buy AP, I will go to them, and ask them to fit it as well.

Okay heres my 2 pennyworth.  My car had standard (adjustable damping) suspension.  My changes have been

• Negative camber top suspension mounts. The change was dramatic, particularly at the hairpin at Donnington. Opinion - Value for money - fantastic - its a must.
• Next I binned my expensive adjustable dampers (well I still have them and they are for sale if anyone wants them (50k miles only)) and went for the schnitzer kit. Also had the bushes changed throughout to to polyurethane.  Opinion - Excellent - suspension is better on the road than any of the settings from standard.  The only adjustability is on the anti roll bars (which must be stiffer as the roll is reduced) which is enough. With sticky tyres (the very ones John W is now using) it lifted a front wheel far too much (like for 50 yards at Bedford by the pits) but I softened off the front which sorted it. The ONLY issue I had is that it feels like the car can pitch slightly for and aft and can feel flighty when going over crests. I am now totally used to this and think it is just that the left to right roll is tighter (ie less) then the dive/squat parameter. So its the only gripe and actually its just that one aspect has been improved more than another aspect.  The car flies very well - over hump backs etc it lands like some Finnish rally driver in a 1972 twin cam escort! 4 wheel touch down so smoothly.
• Big brakes.  I was convinced I needed big brakes. Donnington would kill my brakes within 3 laps and having boiled the fluid I would be driving around the problem all day.  once it had happened at Donnington it happened everywhere no matter how much I bled the brakes (Yes I use hi temp fluid and have decent pads with plenty of meat). 'Thats it', I thought - Brembos here I come. People like Roops told me it was unnecessary.  I thought - okay I'll do it in 2 stages - stage 1: big american air vents from fog light aperture to brakes (per John Ws comment).  Stage 2 : big brakes.  I've done stage 1 - There is no need for stage 2 - don't bother with big brakes!  My car can race all day and still get the ABS cutting in when the track is dry with sticky tyres - what more can you ask for? Roops was right, I was wrong. Take my advice and try the 2 stage approach - what can you lose? Also, a mate Tony (black M3 and Lotus- dont ask) sent me some email on how soem race mechanic has never seen warped discs.  his scientific study proposes that when we all (and I mean all M3 drivers) complain about and therefore change warped discs the reason for the judder is not warping but deposits of pad material on the disc.  Its all down to our impatience or lack of education in properly bedding in pads in the first place.
  

If anyone is interested in the brake article give me a shout and I'll try and find, then post it.

Hope I didnt blather too long - nice red wine....

I knew you'd been drinking Pottsy, hic, luckily I have too!

Thanks for the call, will be doing offsest mounts before selling my car in favour of the sport evo or anything else!

So you have realised that brake judder is not warped discs, it is cooked pads. It can also come from the disc not being mounted perfectly squarely onto the hub, you will notice this if it gets OK again when it has all cooled down.

Brake ducting is def. a good upgrade, and you can easily fabricate your own with kitchen extractor ducting.

I found out that Mintex 1155 and  'cheap' non BMW discs were the best combo... the discs wear out quicker but stop the car just as well.

Oh... and have you seen that my old car that I sold to Circuit Driver is back up for sale... just wish I could justify buying it back!

Nick

Here's the site of the Americans who me and Roops (Lancelot) got our brake cooling kit from. Nick is right though, you could make it yourself. I would buy their backing plates for convenience possibly.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/catalog/brake/e30_installation.htm">http://www.bimmerworld.com/catalog/brake/e30_installation.htm

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm">http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

Here's the warped disc myth page.

Quote: Originally posted by John W on 21-November-2002

---

How do you know it's up for sale?

---

Because he has asked if I want it back so that he can buy a 911....

If I had not spent his money, then I wouldn't hesitate... then again if I hadn't  sold it along with all of my other 'precious things' I wouldn't have been able to buy Manor Farm.

If there is a way then I will find it... if not you could add it to your collection and sell it to me once I had saved up enough... after all it really is the 'best' one out there.

That was only this week... he has decided that now  he would rather sell the M3 and get a 911..

Like I said before, you should aquire it on my behalf!

The car is being sold in a hurry to make way for a 911 that he has bought.

....only £8 grand... and it's just as I sold it, except for a few more miles on the clock and all that extra kit he has put on the engine... you get all the original gubbins as well if you want to change it all back.

... serviced and ready to go

... bargain or what?

...this is the same car that I sold to him for 10k earlier this year, just wish I could afford to buy it back.

Nick

I believe it was traded in against the Porsche.. but that is all I know...

I didn't have enough money so I didn't pursue it.

Nick