Looks like the car that was at Donnington last year.

Condition looks good for the mileage.

Motorsport Editions are rare - only 181 allegedly. How "special" they are depends on your point of view (I'm biased!).  They ticked most of the boxes on the options list; lsd, uprated suspension, M-Tech steering wheel, wheel arch spats, Sports seats & colour (mine's Misano Red) plus all the Highline features.

QUOTE "How "special" they are depends on your point of view (I'm biased!)."

Not biased at all Andy, I had a lift in it the other night and have to say it was beautiful!!

Thanks, I have to agree

I'm looking forward to seeing your 7

A lot of highlines were of the same spec, without being motorsports.

A chrome bumper is lighter and so is slightly quicker and slightly better on fuel.

I am Biassed to, but to the chrome bumper cars.

A nice motorsport though is a mighty fine car especially in Macau Blue

Sohlman wrote: A chrome bumper is lighter and so is slightly quicker and slightly better on fuel.

There's a lot of myth about the weights of various E24 models. The chrome bumper models aren't much lighter than the Highlines at all. 

As you say, a lot of Highlines had Motorsport options but lot of pre-Highlines had most of the Highline options (less the leather dash & roof lining) too. 

The bumpers on the Highlines may look heavy but they're actually aluminium.  Electric seats weigh a bit more but I've had them out & they aren't that heavy. The heaviest increase comes from choosing an autobox rather than manual.

I've checked out the weights of the '82 to '89 Sixes & they only vary by 200lbs or so.  I weigh more than that!  In a car as heavy as a Six does having a passenger make a noticable difference to performance when you have 220bhp+ ? In a race car yes but not in a road car.

As can be seen from the original CSL & the M3 CSL (& all the 911 lightweights)  you have to junk an awful lot of stuff before it starts to make a noticeable difference.  All those "lightweights" also had more power too.

635CSi Highline Motorsport Edition - Full Fat, High Caffine 80% proof !

ive been looking to buy a an old 6 for quiet some time .but i really dont know the values of them .and this one in especialy ..seems to be maybe worth putting a bid in .but as i havent followed [as yet] the prices of them ...is this one over priced ??????

thanks for any info

Sorry Andy

"Bruce" (my old 7) was part ex'd as part of the deal on my new car on Friday

Wow that is a beauty.

Surely has to be worth that sort of money, as long as the rust has not got into it.

I have a chrome bumper 635 and I got tired of the chrome bits rusting. So I went out and bought some second-hand aluminium 'highline' bumpers, intending to modify them with wrap-round bits so they resemble the style of the chrome bumpers a bit better.

Aluminium will be very light and corrosion resistant, I thought to myself.

Well, this turned out to be a stupid idea. Although they could have been very lightweight, they are nothing of the sort. The aluminium bumpers are HEAVY, really really really HEAVY because they are made of very thick material and are designed to meet US spec parking lot collisions.

I think most of the weight gain in the highlines comes from these fat so-and-sos, and the rest comes from the electric seats, the self-levelling suspension, rear air-con and the leather dashboard etc etc. All of which I can live without quite happily thank you, especially if it tots up to 120kg+.

To put this into perspective this is about the same as the weight of the 6 cylinder engine in the new 6-series. Around a race track, this much extra weight would be like be like losing 20bhp or more. 

All 12V highlines have a lower compression engine and a slightly hotter cam than the earlier cars. Although peak power and torque are comparable with earlier engines there is going to be a smaller area beneath the torque curve. This plus the extra weight means they are mostly fitted with a shorter diff ratio to keep the acceleration reasonable, but this probably has a negative impact on the fuel consumption.

  Despite the drawbacks of the chrome bumpers, I'd not trade mine for a highline spec; but hey, each to his own, eh....

cheers

Brucey wrote: I think most of the weight gain in the highlines comes from these fat so-and-sos, and the rest comes from the electric seats, the self-levelling suspension, rear air-con and the leather dashboard etc etc.

You certainly wouldn't want to drop one on your foot.  And I'll give you the electric seats too (even though they were available on pre-Highlines). But self-levelling suspension & rear air-con? Not on my Highline. And how heavy do you think leather is? They add up but are still only a passengers weight & won't make a noticable difference on the road.

As for engine/transmission the earlier versions were 218bhp @ 5200, 228lb/ft @4000, 10.0-1 comp & 32.2mph/1000rpm.  Highlines were 220bhp @ 5700, 232lb/ft @ 4000, 9.2-1 comp & 27.3mph/1000rpm.  This was the cat-ready spec. It could have been worse, the E34 535 was down to 211bhp!

At least using unleaded is no problem.

Jonners wrote: That extra weight will make a difference on the road - the question is whether you will notice

Well if you don't notice it then it isn't making a difference!

When the E30 Zoners took their cars to a rolling road session they were expecting big things - chipped, cone filters, big exhausts, modded afm's you name it. There was only a couple that put out more power than standard. But they all thought their cars were faster.

Fact is an '85 "basic" has a power/weight ratio of 149bhp/tonne whilst a Highline has 139bhp/tonne. Like you'll notice that on the A635. Autocar bangs on about tenths of a second here & there. You just don't notice unless you're using a stopwatch.

What have you got against hairdressers? Did one pass you in his Highline?

I like many others have no problem running 95 RON unleaded in the earlier 10:1 cr engine, even though you can't readily adjust the ignition timing, it seems fine without any tweaking.

 Oh, and I weighed my aluminium bumper parts;

The front bumper (Al part only + number plate mounting only) weighs in at 14kgs. This isn't disasterous- I think there is quite a lot of metal in the chrome version.

However, the rear bumper (with underside valance and brackets fitted, but otherwise incomplete) weighs over 30kgs (over 66lbs in real money...). I was definitely in the mood for a little sit down and a nice cup of tea after I'd weighed this....

The chrome rear bumper is postively gossamer-like by comparison. Maybe they were trying to even out the slightly front-heavy weight distribution... who knows...

Here's a thought; although the M30 engine is great, and it is lighter than the M-car engine it is still a very heavy engine. So how about fitting the new lightweight 6-pot engine/gearbox in an E24 (E28 base) chassis? You'd be looking at very good torque, 250bhp, a very slick gearbox and about 1350kgs (or a bit less) with improved weight distribution in standard trim. This should match or better M-car performance up to about 130mph, and would be better round corners and on the brakes. With no need for a catalyst and less demanding emissions tests I'd imagine there would be more power to come without too much difficulty also. With a range of E24 Carbon bodywork parts now available (front bumper/spoiler, wings, bonnet etc), a sub 1300kg kerbside weight with a fairly standard appearance is on the cards, potentially making it a real 'Q' car.

...hmmmm, interesting....

Who wants to go first?

cheers

Brucey,

I wonder how much a new 6 pot 3 litre engine costs? Your unlikely to find many in the breakers just yet. You could probably buy a decent M635 for the money.. LOL

I see the latest diesels have an alloy block. The 535d twin turbo has 272bhp & 413lb/ft torque. Now that would overcome any excess Highline weight.   Of course, putting the power down would be another matter !

On the weight issue of the bumpers - would drilling them out Meccano style make much difference or would it compromise strength too much?  They are handy when some numpty is trying to park their 4x4 by ear!

AndyS wrote: I see the latest diesels have an alloy block. The 535d twin turbo has 272bhp & 413lb/ft torque. Now that would overcome any excess Highline weight.

Diesel 635?? Lovely.....

Seriously though, I am quite interested in the whole carbon fibre bodywork idea. From what I can tell there's outer wings, bonnet and front airdam available in carbon fibre - that's got to add up to quite a weight saving. I don't know what the weight distribution is on a standard 6 but that should balance it up nicely. Shame about the price though....

OK just to thread some light on a couple of points.

last year Ivan and myself had a day at Santa Pod. At the quarter mile point my manual six was just under a second faster. Now we both have chrome bumper cars with similar specs. The difference was down to the extra weight of the auto box and some down to the manual gearbox. That is based on the assumption that both cars mechanically are as they should be which i know is the case with my car and i believe is the case with Ivans. Anyway we did not race each other directly as there was a problem with the track, but i did race a 2002 Tii which had the same standing quarter time and was crossing the line some 60 - 80 yards ahead.

Another friend of mine has a highline and the difference in performance is much greater. With him manual selecting gears and moving at 30mph on entry onto a motorway i can pull about a 50 yards gap before entering the motorway. My friend was quite miffed at the difference and certainly on twisty roads he has to try harder to corner at the samee speed due to the increased roll compared to my lighter car.

With regards to carbon Fibre panels i  know that a steel bonnet weights in at 35kg's and the carbon fibre weight between 3.5kgs and 5kgs depending on whether it is single or double skinned and how it is fixed to the car. Also the front spoiler and bumper is about the same weight, but is around 5kgs in carbon. Carbon fibre wings are 1.5KG's and doors can be done for about 15kg's. Overall i think it could be realistic to loose between 80 - 100Kg's by moving over to carbon fibre. The gains in performance of doing this would require substancial money to be spent on the engine for example to gain the same performance yeild. However if this was done to the engine, the brakes and suspension would need to be improved whilst the lighter car would not.

Horsetan wrote: Sohlman wrote: ...last year Ivan and myself had a day at Santa Pod. At the quarter mile point my manual six was just under a second faster. Now we both have chrome bumper cars with similar specs. The difference was down to the extra weight of the auto box and some down to the manual gearbox. That is based on the assumption that both cars mechanically are as they should be which i know is the case with my car and i believe is the case with Ivan's. You also have to factor reaction times to the "green light" into this. Who's to say that if my reactions had been quicker I would have been that much closer to your 1/4mile time?

I agree reaction time is a factor in a race, but the timing equipment at santa pod starts once you pass their timing gate. So in essence you get 2 readings. One from green lights to initial movement and the other from initial movement to end of the quarter mile.

Horsetan wrote: Andy Boy wrote: ...1983 635CSi Auto       0-100 20.5 secs, 15.7 1/4 mile. Interesting. The best I could get for mine was 17.01 for the 1/4mile...

The best i got was 16.28. I can only presume that as santa pod runs up hill that is where the difference occours.

Jonners wrote: think the point's been missed as stated the extra weight will make a difference if you don't notice it will probably be because you're not tuned in to these things as for hairdressers, hope you're not going to tell me you don't know what i mean..

Not so much the point as the relevance.

Yes the Highlines do have a lot of unnecessary kit (as do non-Highlines) but without it they wouldn’t be “luxury” coupes would they.  BMW have tried selling lightweights before – the original & M3 CSL’s.  People just load them back up with all the toys.

Yes, the Highline bumpers are big & heavy – but they do serve a purpose.

I accept Highlines are heavier and while the non-Highline I’ve driven wasn’t back to back it wasn’t night & day.  On a track in competition where a 10^th second can make a difference it’s relevant – but on the road ?

Sohlman claims a 50 yard advantage down a sliproad.  From what he’s told me about the difference in braking systems between Highlines & pre-Highlines I could gain it all back after a few corners!

The power to weight advantage is small  (139 to 149bhp/tonne) and after all the Six is not a sports car in the way a similar age Porsche 911 is.

I'm as tuned in as anybody thanks.

As for hairdressers – how do you know I’m not one?

It's no good grovelling, I can't do anything about your double parietal hair whorl . . .

. . . just get a No.1 !

In all fairness (although I'm not in favour of heavy cars if the extra weight serves no real purpose) I would concede that Andy has a point- you could have a fully loaded chrome bumper car that was heavier than a highline with no toys. But most of them are not like this.

Actually, I don't think a 6er needs to be loaded up with toys to be considered a luxury coupe; this much is kind of built-in.  On the other hand (like any sports car) it needs all the power, weight loss and handling it can get if performance is at all important. Up to a point, there is no such thing as too much of any of them.

To some extent I suppose it boils down to an aesthetic thing in the end. I used to race bicycles and I still ride them and motorcycles. Both these things can instil in you a powerful sense of what is right in terms of lightweight engineering construction for performance. Anything that doesn't work well enough and/or is too heavy just gets junked. Even though it doesn't really matter any more, to this day I can't bear to see something any heavier than it needs to be on my bikes; it just upsets me  -like a defaced work of art it isn't the thing it was, should or could be.

 I'm generally not so fussed about cars but the same logic applies. For instance, I remember being very pleased to see that the original Lotus Elise had aluminium composite brake discs and went as fast or faster than many more powerful and exotic cars, without the benefit of big horsepower. I even remember being pleased to see the absolutely minimalist quality of the stereo Lotus offered- like everything else it was pared down to almost nothing yet still worked very well. A design like that is the product of a very single-minded approach to everything, sparing no quarter.

Extra weight for no gain or a non-performance gain is the simple antithesis of the above approach;  whilst I would agree a 6 series is never going to be a lightweight sports car in the same vein as a lotus, there is definitely scope for altering it for the better, without losing those things that make it the (almost iconic) car it is. Less weight, more power and better handling please, not the other way round. 

Just my two pence worth.....

cheers

Leroyhighline wrote: Hi Andy is there anything official on the log book that tells you if you have a Motorsport edition 635, mine has all of the features above but not sure of the suspension (how do you find out)

It's not on the logbook but I have a copy of the dealers specification enquiry which lists it as option 129.  It also lists the other options, lsd etc. as well. I was told the Motorsport had the M635 suspension but I don't know for sure.  Mine had Bilstein gas shocks put on by the previous owner not long before I bought it. I'm told they make a big difference.

Colour would be a good indication. Misano Red, Nogaro Silver & Macau Blue are the colours but I've a feeling you could get the Macau anyway.

At the end of the day it was a "selected options" special so you could have a Motorsport without it being a Motorsport, if you see what I mean. 

Howard wrote: Well as a guy who has been driving these cars for the last ten years or so, with at least 5 different models, the one that I would look for is the car manufactured between January and April 1987. They have most of the advantages of the Highline and no plastic/alloy bumpers. They are all great cars, and chrome or plastic, 635 or M635, they still go round Croft in under two minutes, and do Rotterdam to Tihany in Hungary in 12 hours 3 up. Good enough for me!

I have to agree with Howard's choice- Mine's an early '87 with the half-decent highline style brakes, chrome bumpers, and retaining the high compression engine. I like it a lot. (It'll be even better when I've finished it). 

I've never had mine maxed out, but I've seen some big numbers, including an indicated 100mph in second gear (that'll be the switchable auto with the 3.07 diff then).

I didn't go out looking for an auto, but I bought this one thinking I might change it for a 'proper' gearbox later. Now I'm not sure I'll bother; where I'd only rate an old-style auto box as good enough for 5/10ths efforts, the I rate the switchable auto box as good enough for 8/10ths efforts on the throttle and 7/10ths efforts round corners and on the brakes. This is no good on the race-track, but matches ideally with the sort of 'press-on' driving that is occasionally possible on the road, and is high praise coming from someone like me who would otherwise heel and toe out of habit and has pointedly refused to have anything to do with several vehicles where the pedals weren't set out 'just so'.

 I'd agree that they are all great cars too.....

cheers

Horsetan wrote: Brucey wrote: ...(It'll be even better when I've finished it).  There's just the little matter of wing panels, eh, Brucey?

oh yes.......