Dept Of Transport say, in the Road safety Bill-they will ban detectors & Jammers and the carrying of them.Job done within the year.

They didnt tell the Lawyers for the manufactorers !!!!!!

Ps--hope you understand post

Any chance they'll also ban Gatsos and handhelds as well?

npbs ill just unplug mine and rely on the gps side of it ;)

they aint planning to ban them yet ;)

they'll have to prise mine out of my cold dead hands....

http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=12419&PN=1 - http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=12419&a mp;PN=1

was that a quote from the film?!

i havent seen that film in a long time

oh i remember now, thats the bit at the start when the cockroach thing asks for the farmers shotgun?

makes sense , theres more info here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=9581 - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=9581

Heres a related story from Pistonheads

DO ALIENS MAKE YOU SPEED?

Friday 3rd December

They do in Northumbria. Check out the excuses

Aliens ate my hamster isn't quite it -- but it's close. The Northumbria Safety Camera Partnership -- the body which runs the county's speed camera business -- has just published its top 10 excuses for being Gatsoed. At the top of the list is a trance induced by aliens, followed by blaming passing aircraft for triggering the camera.

i mentioned this earlier in the year and got slated for it.

what they are going to do is ban anything with the ability to emmit a signal under the radio liscence bill.

basically meaning you need a permit or liscence to carry which wont be granted.

it wont effect the likes of road angel and other top gps based systems.

i`m not talking about radar.

if they have the capability they are being banned

not if they use it (which of course is also being banned)

 i don't get you

what capability?  what are you talking about if its not radar?

to be honest i am unsure but when i was at the autosport international i spoke to dave walker who is the MD of road angel and he told me about this new bill being passed and he told me about there new contract to fit road angel as an optional extra in the new VW`s

He told me that things like the snooper have an ability too send a signal and it was this fact that they would be banned by mid 2005 and this looks like it is coming true.

its not as easy as changing this device either as the way some of the systems work is by them sending a signal which is picked up by things around them (i cant remember the full reason to be honest) and some devices have a chip which has capability of sending out signals which cant be changed as it is this same chip that recieves signals.

i hope this makes a little sence ????

a simple answer to that is this. (based on the results of massive work from the RAC and the AA)

Uk speed limits were set out in the early 1970`s when the braking systems on cars were far less advanced than those of today.

It is a fact that modern cars can stop, at higher speeds in a shorter distance than those of yesteryear.

adding 10mph onto the speed limit would reduce trafic congestion by around 20% saving the country billions in lost revenue with employees etc etc stuck in traffic.

We are very outdated in this country.

where do i sign up?  ive got the land rover with chain on standby

Goldryder wrote: Cos if you insist on being an habitual speeder, you ain't adult enough to drive a car anyway.  Taking responsibility for your actions, only you can do that, not some overpriced gizmo sat on the dashboard screaming like a banshee.  Speeding is stupid, dangerous and just not necessary..we all have done it and grown out of it..those who haven't grown out of it, maybe need to quit driving before they take someone elses life.  Perhaps an age/experience related cc/bhp limit should be introduced too.

they do say that reformed drivers are the worst kind

whats that saying?

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

put that rock down, Ally

the real bugbear that the police and government have is that countermeasures to prevent or hinder speed detection mean that they lose out on revenue, it's got little to do with safety, as im sure everyone who has spotted a mobile or fixed speed trap in the middle of nowhere with no immediate threat nearby, be it road layout or proximity of hazards, concurs

laser detectors will tell you when the police are toting laser guns, obviously they will alert you to this fact - hopefully they put it on a car thats in front of you(moral of the story?  let the lead-footed person lead the way!), thereby giving you enough time to slow down from a minor infraction of the speed limit (say 70mph in a 60) before they move the gun onto you

radar detectors will tell you if those fixed gatsos are live or not - if they aren't, then in theory you could blast through them with impunity - if they don't send out radar, then they don't receive it back (the doppler effect), and they don't get a fix on your speed

that's why the government want radar/laser detectors banned - read the official statements published recently

gps detectors are okay in the governments eyes cos they just give you a heads-up to be careful - speed detection device in the vicinity,  saves your attention from diverting from the speedo and won't tell you if they are live or not, unlike the aforementioned detectors

and heres some refreshingly non-biased info from a company that sells them:

http://www.radar-guys.com/faqs.htm - http://www.radar-guys.com/faqs.htm

i agree wholeheartedly Rhys, a few local stories which stick in my mind

1994 - some young hotshoe in an orion overtook a string of cars coming up to a junction on the outskirts of elgin (40 mph limit), 3 teenagers in a metro pulling out of said junction weren't expecting to have to look both ways....

4 people dead (metro and orion), case has just been closed this week - a copper who attended the scene has been awarded ££££ for trauma caused by said accident

quite a spectacle, i was there to witness the aftermath after the crash

another crash, bit more recently, a kawasaki hit a car after cutting a bend, again on the scene before the services but after other folks.... foot down to elgin police station as noone had a clue as to what was happening (yes im a bad boy, speeding tut tut) police cars, road closed, ambulance, both rider and pillion passenger tangled up in fence... one dead and couldnt be removed for fear of hurting the live one.... later pronounced dead... was there for that too

and the story of the local 17 year old given the keys to a then brand new ford escort rs turbo by his father as a birthday present.. dead days later... wrapped it round a tree

i could go on, but i dont need to preach to the converted, these things happen every day, hopefully not to you, those you love, or those you know

ive done some really stupid things in the past  and lived to tell the tale, they didnt seem stupid at the time, but hindsight is a wonderful teacher

im not going to do a holier than thou thing, who would you rather trust?  someone whos been there, done that and can tell you to watch out for the pitfalls cos youre going to do it anyway, or someone whos sanctimonious and of the "thou shalt not" attitude?

another more interesting law that has been passed is the positioning of speed cameras, after a long report it was deemed that most of the cameras were in useless positions and only put there to make revenue for the department

now they are going to put in more usefull positions ie actual and not fictional blackspots

yes gps based detectors dont tell u whether the camera is alive or not but it does tell u if its there which is kind of the whole point anyway  its also warned me of risk zones as they are called

i remember earlier this year when i was heading down the A9 it went off and warned me to slow down which i did so i could see the riskzone in ? and as i braked wouldnt u know it if a deer just shot across the road, now thats wot i call a fortunate happenstance

remember the old days before gatso's took off, when u got caught by actual policemen and given the stern lecture about speeding?

that really hit home when i first got caught speeding

remember radar detectors are illeagal in parts of the US and france but that doesnt stop them being used does it? food for thought

All very interesting, as an ex motorcyclist and someone who likes driving fast but recognises it's not always appropriate and never really "necessary".

I think proper training and experience are the way forwardpossibly as said above, some restriction on what you can drive initially - rather than gatsos evey few hundred yards, many of which, as said above, are in totally stupid places.

I remember the police "chats" only too well from my biker days, "In a race were we sonny" - Only response ""yes officer" or "No officer" lol

Happy and safe motoring everyone! 

[QUOTE=Goldryder]And 30mph will still kill a child.

>>> NO mention of parental training whatsoever?????, how come ALL the Safety partnerships are NOT Shouting "Green Cross code " Day & Night????? cos there is No money in it and Look Look Look, isnt as Dramatic, as Speed Kills.93% of accidents are not speed related--NOT that this fact is included in any DOT Bliarspeak.Just the same as the 4000 death,s each year in the Home--is of No concern-NO money!!

So the answer for habitual speeders is to have a DOT restrictor in the car, and only work use (So TAX can be paid) So presume habitual Drug & Drinkers will get an electric shock from state fitted wrist strap, each time they have a thought.Why not take it to the Logical end, get Chippeduk to get US rechipped, sounds like the "Thought Police", maybe someone could write a book about it--1984--BUT-- its already a way of life-NOW.

We need to preserve OUR Right of Freedom & choice, NOT surrender it to govt parasites.

I was doing 60mph on a National Speed Limit road at 3am this morning, when suddenly infront of me is a drunken 20stone hussey, walking down the white centre lines, arms outstretched, not a care in the world.

Obviously the countless redbull n vodkas and smirnoff ices inside her had made her immortal, and also oblivious to my loud horn and flashing lights.

Managed to miss her anyway (feared the car would have bumped off her, not t'other way round to be honest)

But a speedcamera in that situation wouldnt have saved her life (as I wasnt speeding), so I agree with the general concesus of B7 VP's arguement and think that the penalties for such stupid behaviour should be more publicised, infact she should inherit my 3 points that I received last month for doing 36mph on a duel carriageway (missed the 30 sign that was located moments before)

Rant over.

Rhys wrote: Should have just treated her as a traffic island..

Nah would have well lost my front lip spoilers .... Im always up for a big hump, but she was taking the mick!

B 7 VP wrote: [QUOTE=Goldryder]And 30mph will still kill a child. >>> NO mention of parental training whatsoever?????, how come ALL the Safety partnerships are NOT Shouting "Green Cross code " Day & Night?????

No matter how much you tell them, occaisonally kids are going to run accross the road without looking. Yes instilling the highway code is a good start but it's Motorists who need to take most of the responsibillity in looking out for kids when driving in built up areas, after all it's the drivers that are the grown ups. Do you have children?  I don't, but I know that it just isn't possible to watch them 24 hours a day.

No prizes for guessing that your not a fan of the Labour party. Well if you think that the rest will be any better then I think you may be dissappointed.

You sound a bit like a Daily mail headline lol

No matter how much you tell them, occaisonally kids are going to run accross the road without looking. Yes instilling the highway code is a good start but it's Motorists who need to take most of the responsibillity in looking out for kids when driving in built up areas, after all it's the drivers that are the grown ups. Do you have children?  I don't, but I know that it just isn't possible to watch them 24 hours a day.

No prizes for guessing that your not a fan of the Labour party. Well if you think that the rest will be any better then I think you may be dissappointed.

You sound a bit like a Daily mail headline lol

 >> Yes!! I have grownup children, who now teach their own 3-5 year olds the green cross way, and at this age--they can tell you not to go near the road.This is far better than Blaming every one else, Cos THAT-doesnt bring them back if they are a Statistic.

If being a Freedom loving person, who Will fight for My freedom of choice,and it sounds like a Newspaper--I AM yer Man!!!!Perhaps many people in the UK, do NOT realise just how much of their democratic rights have been Stolen by this band of Crooks, and more are going every month.

If one says something often enough,some people begin to beleive it, as Fact, just like Ol King Bliar,s New Clothes--ME!! I got 20/20 Vision.

I don't think it's about blaming everyone else. To much emphasis these days is put on laying blame. I'm just talking about looking out for others especially children who don't always know better, especially if there parents don't teach them.

You give the impression of thinking that the government is part of some big conspiricy to steal our democratic rights. I don't think it is like that. These days the government are held accountable for everything. My child is a hooligan, it must be the governements fault. The stock market isn't doing well, the government are too blame. They are so busy trying to cover themselves from the constant critisism that they are bound to try and use ledgislation. Don't forget that the lobby for speed cameras etc is just as big as that against.

I'm not saying that I agree with the whole speed camera issue, because I don't (except outside of schools etc). Some of the new laws I agree with, some I don't, but that's just life. I can't expect the whole country to agree with me and do exactly what I want because if that was the case we genuinely wouldn't be free. 

As a parent myself I have to support 25-30mph around schools, but I have had 2 no fault accidents at school run times due to other drivers not paying attention and giving me no chance whatever.

It is unfair and unrealistic to expect drivers to take ALL responsibility for watching for children in ALL built up areas, you'd have to get out and walk, or go back to the old "man with red flag" days.

With so much traffic, parked cars and distractions and the kids playing chicken or thinking you can stop a car from 25mph on the spot if they run straight into you or step off the kerb, sadly accidents are going to happen unless it's hammered into them from an early age that roads are NOT playgrounds and cars kill.

I can appreciate that the school run is a nightmare. I drive past a school on my way to work and if I am running a bit late I have to contend with it. Fortunately there are three lollypop ladies that do a strearling job and keep the kids safe. What doesn't help is the huge number of stupid 4x4s used by parents dropping kids off. One of the big problems on the roads today is that a lot of people show no consideration for anyone else, especially when they're driving a 2.5 tonne discovery.

Same at school up the road from me, I appreciate the need to drop your kid off at the front gates, but when theres a pub right next door with a huge car park, it annoys me that for the sake of a 20 yard farther walk, they wont use it.

Would it be too much of a sensible idea for the schools to try and work out a timetable of staggered drop offs for the kids, so theres not so many cars/wee un's hanging around at the same time?

 Yes !!! SOME comments ref Brainless Drivers are justified, agree about the School Zones-- Me-sometimes 10-15 mph cos there is NO control in the Zone--4 x 4s + anything else only interested in THEIR Kid, if you think its ok to allow Kid Power,to run out of the gates into the road--then you bring in Zones--NO CAR collections within 300 mtrs of the Gates , in arrive/depart times.

Parents held Liable for their Kids = £££££ + points , maybe TOO revolutionary) for Anti Motorist org,s,  and the Anti use your legs brigade.If parents ignore the Zone regs, 90 days driving Ban-BET you- within a week --No prob.

This isnt the Point--- which IS-Slime Govt uses the motorist as the reason for every BAD thing on our Road--and everything else is due to their Professional skill and Knowledge , including walking on water.

I watch the future generations 10yrs going on 40  (if they survive) going to and from school at bus stops. Our roads are wide, straight visabilty, Have Underpasses EVERYWHERE for pedestrians and cyclists, to be kept apart from wicked Motorists--OK you guessed it!!- getting Off the bus means they cross the to the middle, and then dash if a 2 mtr gap--- yes!! sometimes they get redirected by a car-and its the Drivers fault--Must be-its on Darlings stats!!!!?????

Agree 4x4 pain in bum, every school I pass is buried in cars at drop off/pick up time and from personal experience and observation when I was doing it (while my ex was ill from my place 7 miles away from school) far too many of them could more easily and efficiently walk.

I've been given hassle by head teachers for "inconveniencing" other parents by parking in the disabled space (I am disabled and have the badge) as it meant other people couldn't use the space to turn around. These included my ex's next door neighbour who lived 5 minutes walk away and taxi drivers as well as 4x4's that couldn't steer straight. I have pics of the level of parking inside and outside the scholl if anyones interested, I'dve been ashamed to leave one of mine parked like it. There are many problems on the roads today, but slamming the motorist seems to be the only popular solution.

But aren't all the idiots in 4x4s motorists? and don't they deserve slamming? along with all the other fools that use hand held mobiles when driving, that don't understand the 2 second rule, that can't be bothered to walk their kids to school when they only live 5 minutes away etc etc. The thing that bothers me is that we are all tarred with the same brush.

The problem with speed cameras is that they don't address any of these issues, they just look at one aspect which alone is not the answer to making our roads safer.

B7VP, I must say you are very negative about the whole thing. I does anoy me too, but It's not the end of the world, there are a lot more important things to worry about 

After all at least we don't live in Iraq, or the former Soviet Union, and we weren't in the twin towers on 9/11 etc

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=9595 - http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=9595

ROW RUMBLES OVER SCHOOL RUN DEATHS

Tuesday 7th December

Should children be driven to school? A political fight brews...

A political row over the benefits or otherwise of the taking of children to school by car as opposed to public transport or letting them walk is reaching fever pitch.

Pistonheads above about right.There's been a lot of debates lately about congestion, overweight underexecised kids, but it is still a free country.

Safety? speed? interestingly the moron who rear ended me during the school run was only doing 30mph, and continued to do so straight into the back of my "old" car, which only took minor damage due to the solid build, chrome bumpers and huge rubber overriders. Every panel on his escort (no, not a 4x4) was bent and his 8yr old was unrestrained in front seat so went through windscreen.

He was more upset that the police attended as he had used all his money to buy the car and hadn't bothered insuring it. I have heard it is fairly common for drivers with no licence or no insurance to buy MoT'd cars as they are less likely to get stopped. How do speed cameras prevent that?

B 7 VP wrote: [QUOTE=Goldryder]And 30mph will still kill a child. >>> NO mention of parental training whatsoever?????, how come ALL the Safety partnerships are NOT Shouting "Green Cross code " Day & Night????? cos there is No money in it and Look Look Look, isnt as Dramatic, as Speed Kills.93% of accidents are not speed related--NOT that this fact is included in any DOT Bliarspeak.Just the same as the 4000 death,s each year in the Home--is of No concern-NO money!! So the answer for habitual speeders is to have a DOT restrictor in the car, and only work use (So TAX can be paid) So presume habitual Drug & Drinkers will get an electric shock from state fitted wrist strap, each time they have a thought.Why not take it to the Logical end, get Chippeduk to get US rechipped, sounds like the "Thought Police", maybe someone could write a book about it--1984--BUT-- its already a way of life-NOW. We need to preserve OUR Right of Freedom & choice, NOT surrender it to govt parasites.

I've just read this post from John, and although I agree with what it says, just one little point for the legal types....Horsey ? To look into.

We have had similar discussions on the IAM forum, believe it or not a lot of IAM people, including policemen have detectors.

Regarding pedestrians : please find me one LAW that requires a pedestrian to "give way" to a motor vehicle.

I think you will find there arent any, or at least the legal brains with big books in the IAM cant find one.

Except in areas where they are banned, ( motorways etc ), pedestrians ALWAYS have priority over any other form of transport, and on the IAM forum it was quoted as comong from the 14th century or so, and was in regard to horses, but now applies to all vehicles.

This is why when your involved in an accident with a pedestrian you are always at fault !

rubberknees50 wrote: Pistonheads above about right.There's been a lot of debates lately about congestion, overweight underexecised kids, but it is still a free country.

Yeah maybe if Kids walked to school, less of them would look like they had just come from a lock in at a pie shop!! the same goes for parents.

People these days amaze me, spending a fortune on a gym membership but then driving round the corner to the local shop, or taking the lift rather than the stairs. makes no sense to me

On the subject of Nigels post, one of the problems we have is that pedestrians take very little or no responsibility for them selves at all. At least children have the excuse of being imature and irresponsible through no fault of there own, but adults should no better. For instance how often do you see people crossing the road 50yards from a pedestrian crossing, or running accross when there are cars comming just because the can't be bothered to wait for the green man. If you ask me Jay walking should be illegal in this country, just like it is in the USA and Germany.

And lets not forget cyclists........ 

Oh and on the subject of right of way, I was under the impression that drivers were only prosecuted following a collision with a pedestrian if they are judged to have been driving dangerously, or without due care and attention.

Prosecuted, and regarded as being at fault so their insurance pays are two different things.

It would appear pedestrians actually have very little or no responsibility in law. I'm not saying this is fair or good, just valid.

Cyclists are totaly covered by the vehicle regs....for now !

The fact this isnt enforced is another topic, but please note that in many EU countries, cyclists have now been given the same status as pedestrians, Holland for one, and the lycra louts are trying very hard to get this over here.

Sounds like a prime case of "the law is an ass" Nigel, if we rely on a 14th century law for modern traffic.

It may be legal but is it justice when a pedestrian, adult or child, runs out into the road into your vehicle and it's automatically your fault as a driver, even if you were within the speed limit, keeping your distance and alert!

We have all seen many incidents such as Peter above describes, I have had a postman turn sharply off the pavement without any attempt at looking and walk straight into the side of my car on brookside. I think I was doing all of 25mph at the time, and yet legally thats my fault?

Personal responsibility for our actions and and respect for others we were mostly brought up with, but sadly there's a generation out there for whom nothing is their fault, ever.

If I make a mistake driving I will happily put my hand up, if some moron can't be bothered to look and gives me no chance to avoid them, why should that automatically be my fault!