| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
M3Pilot 
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 31-October-2002
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 340
|
 Topic: cams for e30m3
Posted: 27-March-2004 at 11:07 |
You never going to gain huge chucks of power on a NA engine like you can on a FI engine.
I'll let you guys know what I think of the airbox mod as mine should be back on the road next week. IMO the airbox is a good mod, but probably a mod too far for most. It's something that will need careful setting up. It doesn't make much more on it's own stock for stock, but it will grow with the car as you build it up. You need to look at it as just one part of the set up and tune the car from intake to exhaust.
I think the other advantage is that with the extra low/mid torque the car is going to want to pull out of the bends much better. This is great for me as I have no where near the skills that Roops has behind the wheel.
I'll post the plots if anyones interested, though I'm not expecting to much after the shockingly bad leakdown test results I have got back.
Still the cars sounds at least 100 bhp faster that before 
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Weeksy
Groupie
Joined: 25-March-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 17:24 |
LancelotII,
I am with you on that one.
Proper forged steel knife edged crank with ultra light rods and pistons.
I would love to build one to Ultimate spec given the finances!
Top quality stainless one piece valves, with narrow stems, along with top spec springs and titanium retainers.
Silly cams with Ultra lift and ultra long duration coupled with a proper CR woulds make the power.
Does anybody on here have one past the 300 mark, be it track or road use??
Regards
Weeksy
|
|
lancelotII
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 24-November-2002
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 853
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 13:49 |
 Weeksy wrote:
LancelotII,
Back in the day, these S14 engines were producing 300 + bhp in race form, that must have been very labour intensive. Are you aware of the engine parts that were changed for that sort of output? I must be just skimming the surface with cam and head and piston mods! Compression must have been circa 13:1, with Proper management and extremely wild cam profiles and head specs.
|
The DTM cars had all sorts of trick bits, but mainly mega light pistons and rods so that the engine speed could be upped to make the power. Once you have reached the thermal efficiency of the engine i.e head flowing and the like, the only way to make more power is increase the engine speed which then results in more air being flowed through it. Coupled to huge cams and monster CR's you get power, in a narrow power band, but lots of it. I don't see how you can make 300bhp+ from a naturally aspirated S14 without spinning it up to 9500rpm or thereabouts. If you can, I would love to know how.
|
|
cecotto147
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 189
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 13:08 |
Now, on that website I can't mention, there was a supercharger kit for an e30 m3 earlier this year and it wasn't that much money if i remember rightly.
Why can't i go back to the site i can not name and take advantage of broadband at work!! 
Check out items available to the uk as there is a lot of stuff in europe and america for the e30 m3.
|
|
Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 12:34 |
|
Yep - a supercharger would be much nicer than a turbo - neater installation, probably no need for any internal mods at all, can remove and revert to standard very easily, improved torque all the way through to the red line, no lag, standard exhaust, no heat problems, would really suit E30 M3 style of car without turning it into a dragster style beast...
|
|
UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 12:16 |
|
west tuning for superchargers
01264 77 38 39
maybe worth a call, don't know if they do anything S14 related. They had a 540 at BMW show in Donington which looked really tidy installed.
|
|
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
|
|
Weeksy
Groupie
Joined: 25-March-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 12:09 |
Cecotto147,
Nice work matey!!
That's the one I saw in the mags all that time ago.
It doesn't give any shots of the exhaust side of the engine, I bet it's a bit of a squeeze!
As I have said, not sure the car deserves that big old T4 Turbo, running only a bar of boost; a T3 / T35 would be more than plenty, and still give good low down torque. I understand that with a bigger turbo running modest boost produces a cooler air charge temp, so maybe fitted due to lack of room for intercooler?
Who knows?!
Regards
Weeksy
|
|
cecotto147
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 189
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 11:48 |
|
|
|
cecotto147
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 189
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 11:47 |
I've just found an article which i scan read so didn't take it in too much, but at first glance it looks like the car's engine internals are fairly standard.
Have a look:
And it's an English car, where are you!!
|
|
Weeksy
Groupie
Joined: 25-March-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 11:39 |
Cecotto147,
That seems like a fair price, although the engine would have to come out and apart to prepare it for a good dose of boost pressure!!
I'd be interested to know also.
Any opinions on thjese Lotec beasts?
Regards
Weeksy
|
|
cecotto147
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 189
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 11:22 |
Mmmm, Lotec.
There was a complete kit on a web site whose name i can not type in to my computer as IT manager says it is a virus carrier (Edited) a while ago. I think it went for about 900 notes, or the equivalent of as it was all in euro's.
Does anyone on here own a lotec'd car?
Edited to remove objectionable language, see the forum guidelines
Edited by Nigel
|
|
Weeksy
Groupie
Joined: 25-March-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 11:17 |
Uwe,
Is there?? I've not heard about that
It's just an idea, just thinking out loud.
I know it can ruin things slightly!! It can give some pretty spectacular results, but drivability is questionnable, as it is very much on/off, unless a fogger system is empolyed to soften it's impact!! Otherwise it's new clutch/ gearbox/ diff replacement!!
I'm not sure if Turbocharging it may upset drivability also, I think it may lose it's lovely balance of handling and throttle resopnse.
I'm in a quandry!!
What do you think??
Regards
Weeksy
|
|
Weeksy
Groupie
Joined: 25-March-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 11:10 |
LancelotII,
Cheers for that info, you are an education!
I wrongly presumed peak power would have been the benefit, with maybe only marginally stronger torque curve in the mid range
Back in the day, these S14 engines were producing 300 + bhp in race form, that must have been very labour intensive. Are you aware of the engine parts that were changed for that sort of output? I must be just skimming the surface with cam and head and piston mods! Compression must have been circa 13:1, with Proper management and extremely wild cam profiles and head specs.
All I can compare with is the Cosworth Sierra, which I own also, and mine produces a relaible 450 bhp with (pistons excluded) stock internals. Chalk and cheese tho I understand.
I have seen a Lotec car, but think that a T4 turbo they fitted to be a little OTT, as they have lots of lag unless fitted with rolling bearing cores ££££!! Also space on the exhaust side of the engine seems to be at a premium even with the stock headers!
Thanks for your advice sir.
Regards
Weeksy
|
|
UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 10:53 |
|
Is there not a NOS melted one at BEXLEY's at the moment?
|
|
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
|
|
lancelotII
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 24-November-2002
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 853
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 10:24 |
|
I think you really have to consider what you are trying to achieve. The stock AFM is a bottle neck, however at full throttle it's open and flows fairly well. Where it really suffers is in mid range. Alpha-N or any equivalent does away with the AFM and uses sensors to manage the engine. These generally provide more torque (i.e driveability) and a little additional bhp at the top end. They are not a panacea for instant mega horsepower. Having seen dynoplots of stock cars that have been converetd, you would be really dissapointed with the ultimate numbers (5-10bhp), but the torque curve is lovely, so if you want to drive around in traffic all day, it will be heaven.......
The S14 is a fairly efficient engine in stock form. The exhaust outflows the inlet by about 120% (85% is considered good..) It makes nearly 100bhp per litre, again pretty good. Given these things, it is never going to be cheap to extract power.
Personally if you really want mega power I would turbo charge it. Lots of people cringe at the thought, but Lotec did a pretty good job with really agricultural hardware. With good modern technology I reckon you could make a solid, reliable 350bhp. More if you want to push the bounds of engine life. I wouldn't ever consider n2o, for one of these. They are too expensive to fix when it all goes wrong, leave it for the Drag crowd.
|
|
Weeksy
Groupie
Joined: 25-March-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 09:37 |
Hi fellas,
What are the prices on that Weber Alpha management setup??
Is it silly money?? If it's silly silly, it's nitrous for me!!
It is a shame, a lovely free flowing throttle body set up as std, and then that bottleneck in the system.
What sort of gains can be expected?
Is anybody using it??
Regards
Weeksy
|
|
MAXXAUTO
Newbie
Joined: 01-March-2004
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 3
|
Posted: 26-March-2004 at 08:17 |
Jonners wrote:
Uwe - don't you need new connecting rods for the 2.5 conversion - I thought the piston heights from the gudgeon pin were the same on the standard and 2.5 pistons?? |
Rods are the same for shure (144).
320is rods are longer.
|
|
Weeksy
Groupie
Joined: 25-March-2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
|
Posted: 25-March-2004 at 18:15 |
Uwe,
Too right my good man!! Better to be on the right side of cautious.
Playdoh works too matey!!
A bloke in the US I heard about ran too tight a tolerance,with 2 x 284's and did some real damage, and at high revs, that's not the sort of thing you need to do through calculation error!!!
regards
Weeksy
|
|
UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
|
Posted: 25-March-2004 at 17:49 |
Jon,
I know what platic gage is and how to check the clearance. Just wondered that you can have it that thick! I always nicked some playdoo (or however that childrens stuff is called) from the kids 
Weeksy, thanks for the help. Your dimensions sound reasoable to me. Everthing below 1.5 would send shiver down my spine.
|
|
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
|
|
Sterling
Newbie
Joined: 23-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3
|
Posted: 25-March-2004 at 17:38 |
Uwe,
Plastigauge,is a soft material you place on top of the piston.You then cycle the engine by hand,wip the head off,check the valve indentations and there you go,piston to valve clearance.
Plastigauge,is just a trade name,its not a plastic gauge .Any news on the engine?
I should have mine up and running soon,pistons are here from the states and the block was sent to be bored last week,so that should be done by now.I finished the head last night and will drop all the bits down to bexley soon so that they can throw it all together and sling it back in the car.
cheers Jon
ps have changed forum handle as I think they were on to me??
|
|
cams for e30m3