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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2007 at 18:40

Originally posted by Ben O Brien Ben O Brien wrote:

It was a genuine B12 alright, full alpina kit, alpina wheels, properly badged as B12 and even had B12 DHS as the number plate (UK plates)

That plate shows up as a 1991 850i.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stephenperry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-June-2007 at 19:20

genuine alpinas don't usually show up with make and model on the dvla or rac number plate sites


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    1983 Ford Sierra XR4i
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 10:10
Im not sure but i think i read somewhere before about a non turbo B10 e34 being down on the log book as a 535i as a result of synters taking the 535 shell and fitting the alpina goodies. im not sure as to how true this is or if its still the case with others but i do remember reading about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larzyh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 10:35

I could go and buy Alpina spoilers, decals, mats, badges and wheels but it would dishonest to describe my car as an Alpina; it would be a BMW with Alpina accessories, yes?

Speaking as an Alpina non-expert; I would not be surprised if Sytner fitted Alpina parts, as available as accessories but presumably these cars don't qualify as Alpina cars as such and won't have manufacturing plaques.

Larzyh.



Edited by larzyh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 10:42

It depends on what details were given when it was registered. The B12 would be based on an 850 and maybe it was just registered as an 850. I know with my B10, I paid all the correct VRT for a Bi-Turbo and filled out the forms with the Marque as being BMW Alpina and the model being B10 Bi-Turbo. What comes back on the VLC, Marque: BMW, Model: Other. Its amazing, they know what the car is when it comes to charging the VRT but dont know what it is when filling out the VLC. ANd if you put the reg into cartell or whatever that site is, all you get is BMW.

As regards the plaques, you even get genuine plaques coming up for sale on ebay off crashed cars. You will know its genuine when you lift the bonnet, it will have 2 chassis numbers, a BMW one and an Alpina one. In the case of the Alpina one it will end with the same number as the car. ie, my BT is no.223 of 507 and the chassis number ends is 223.

@Ben, I also remember reading something about the Synters cars being different alright. One of the lads who keeps a register of a lot of the Alpinas was saying they are harder to trace. I am not sure if they follow the same number sequence.

1991 Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 10:43

Originally posted by Ben O Brien Ben O Brien wrote:

Im not sure but i think i read somewhere before about a non turbo B10 e34 being down on the log book as a 535i as a result of synters taking the 535 shell and fitting the alpina goodies.

Ben, afaik this was true in the '80's when Sytner assembled the Alpina cars for the UK using Alpina kits.  I believe that its also one of the reasons that trying to verify the history of '80's Alpina's is so difficult.  To my knowlwdge they didn't keep great records of what spec was applied to what cars, etc. 

I understand that the more recent Alpina's, built in Buchloe, have Alpina as the manufacturer on the reg doc.

Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larzyh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 10:44

Very interesting information, leon - thanks. And Dergside...

Larzyh.



Edited by larzyh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 10:57
Originally posted by Dergside Dergside wrote:

I understand that the more recent Alpina's, built in Buchloe, have Alpina as the manufacturer on the reg doc.

This would be true in most cases but as I mentioned above its when they get imported to somewhere like Ireland especially and maybe also the UK. The forgeign registration cert of my car had all the correct details with the manufacturer as Alpina, and as I said when I registered it here its now a BMW, not Alpina and not by my choice. Had I known that, I would have just tried to VRT it as a 535i and saved myself a heap of money.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 11:15

Surely you would have not been able to clear it as a 535i though if it states Alpina B10 BT on the foreign reg documents? I had an argument over this with them in the VRT office in Ennis when we cleared a Toyota Landcruiser, everything was genuine with the jeep but it had been put down as a landcruiser VX on the V5 which is the amazon shape but the jeep is a GX which is the more common landcruiser, anyway we had to pay the extra 800 odd euro and clear it as an amazon when it is infact a normal landcruiser. We have appealed but we will have to wait and see.

Surely though you would also run into insurance issues if the car is a 535i on the book and insured as a B10 Bi Turbo. Not to pick on you or anything leon im just curious! If this was the case you could bring in an M3 E36 and clear/insure it a 316i..



Edited by Ben O Brien
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 11:41
Originally posted by Ben O Brien Ben O Brien wrote:

Surely you would have not been able to clear it as a 535i though if it states Alpina B10 BT on the foreign reg documents? I had an argument over this with them in the VRT office in Ennis when we cleared a Toyota Landcruiser, everything was genuine with the jeep but it had been put down as a landcruiser VX on the V5 which is the amazon shape but the jeep is a GX which is the more common landcruiser, anyway we had to pay the extra 800 odd euro and clear it as an amazon when it is infact a normal landcruiser. We have appealed but we will have to wait and see.

Surely though you would also run into insurance issues if the car is a 535i on the book and insured as a B10 Bi Turbo. Not to pick on you or anything leon im just curious! If this was the case you could bring in an M3 E36 and clear/insure it a 316i..

 

Ben, if it came down to it I probably wouldnt have done it, but the person I was dealing with probably wouldnt have known any better and I am sure I could have actually convinced her it was a 535i considering I convinced her to let me pay €300 less than she wanted initially and I am far from the type who could sell snow to the Eskimos!!!!

As regards insurance, well I dont know to be honest, its insured as an Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo but my VLC document technically states, Marque BMW and model other so??? 

I have all the receipts and I think I have a copy of the form I filled out so I should be covered. One of the reasons I was also keen to VRT it correctly is for potential resale as it would be correctly stated on the VLC but again that went out the window when someone somewhere in Shannon read "B10 Bi-Turbo" and saw "Other" 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-June-2007 at 12:38

If i were you id be sending it back to shannon and getting it changed to B10 Bi-Turbo. Im not sure it would affect resale as it is the genuine article but it would make most buyers suspicious as to why it doesnt state what it is on the log.

On a side note the B10 BT does still remain one of my top ten on my wish-list for cars in the future!

I suppose cars can be cleared incorrectly, look at the amount of Civic SiR's and Skyline GTSt's for sale in the autotrader every thursday that are openly declared as "1.6 on the log book" or "non-turbo on log book" and these are often car dealers but thats another matter entirely!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2007 at 10:07

Ex Sultan of Brunei B12 now for sale. Ultra rare 5.7 with manual 6 speed box, Apparantly two 5.7's were made with the 6 manual. Nice price tag too but practically no mileage on it.

http://www.maxted-page.com/cars_for_sale/1992_bmw_alpina.htm

1991 Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2007 at 10:43

That is a real keeper!  I'd love to get a snoop around the various garages of the Sultan and have a nose through his historical car records.  He almost single-handedly kept companies like Rolls-Royce, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari and other top marques in business in the early '90s especially with the one off and customized cars that he ordered. 

Legend has it that most of these brands would consult with him before embarking on any low run models because he generally bought several at a time and if he didn't want them then the viability of the run would be in question.  Not sure, but I think the Bentley Continental Sedanca SC (the targa roofed Conti) was one.

Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2007 at 11:01

Yeh I have read similar stories as well. And not only limited run models, but apparantly manufacturers and its believed Alpina are included here have made him cars specifically to his spec. For example, you would wonder why they only made 2 of the B12's with manual 6 speed boxes, maybe he requested them.

There was a list floating around of his cars there, its a bit dated and is from a few years back, am sure its been posted up here before but there was 9 McLaren F1's on it if I remember correctly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2007 at 16:47
I actually have a set of door cards and a leather/alcantara interior that came out of a Volvo 262C in the Uk that once belonged to the Sultan of Brunei. There's my claim to fame!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dergside Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2007 at 17:20

Originally posted by Ben O Brien Ben O Brien wrote:

I actually have a set of door cards and a leather/alcantara interior that came out of a Volvo 262C in the Uk that once belonged to the Sultan of Brunei. There's my claim to fame!

Does he still have the rest of the car??

Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.

Prev:
e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci.
e39 523i SE.
e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE.
e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-June-2007 at 17:36

Ha ha..... No i believe it broke down and was abandoned in the Uk, a fellow volvo nut bought the car but it had sat for years and was too bad to restore..

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbbaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-June-2007 at 17:28
Originally posted by leon leon wrote:

Ex Sultan of Brunei B12 now for sale. Ultra rare 5.7 with manual 6 speed box, Apparantly two 5.7's were made with the 6 manual. Nice price tag too but practically no mileage on it.

http://www.maxted-page.com/cars_for_sale/1992_bmw_alpina.htm

 

£55k is some price, less than 2K miles on it tho. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than a Mclaren F1 I suppose

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larzyh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-June-2007 at 20:19
Yes, but let's face it it is also a hell of a lot less of a car (no disrespect to the Alpina intended).
Larzyh.
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