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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 13:00 |
livvy wrote:
I would say again it means that you have moved over a line from a legal
speed to an illegal one. It means nothing more in the abscence of any
other evidence. Driving at 70mph doesn't infer that you are a safe
driver anymore than driving at 71 infers you are a dangerous one.
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But if I'm driving illegally, then it doesn't matter whether I'm
dangerous or safe. If I'm in excess of the (ludicrously outdated) speed
limit, then I must, per se,
be driving dangerously. Or are you saying that a person can safely
drive at speeds greater than the UK national speed limit? If that is
the case, then why is there an emphasis on speed to the exclusion of
everything else whenever I hear anything about road safety?
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Ciao,
Spokey
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 13:09 |
Bryce wrote:
I drive most days, sometimes in a car, somtimes abike and sometimes in
a fire appliance, every single day I see more people do stupid things
than do good things! So I don't want those people going any
faster!
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Tell you what, Bryce, let's introduce a 20MPH nationwide speed limit on
all roads. Then we can all ride on horseback again, and re-introduce
the covered wagon. The canals will come back to life as we use them to
transport goods around the country, and rail can reclaim its rightful
place as the fast means of transport. We can also ban intra-UK flights,
because planes are dangerous and fast as well.
Welcome to transport in the 21st century.
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Ciao,
Spokey
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 13:22 |
spokey wrote:
Bryce wrote:
I drive most days, sometimes in a car, somtimes abike and sometimes in
a fire appliance, every single day I see more people do stupid things
than do good things! So I don't want those people going any
faster!
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Tell you what, Bryce, let's introduce a 20MPH nationwide speed limit on
all roads. Then we can all ride on horseback again, and re-introduce
the covered wagon. The canals will come back to life as we use them to
transport goods around the country, and rail can reclaim its rightful
place as the fast means of transport. We can also ban intra-UK flights,
because planes are dangerous and fast as well.
Welcome to transport in the 21st century.
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The speed limits have to be a balance between allowing people to go
about their business & doing that at a speed they should all be
able to interact safely at. What you suggest (even though I'm
sure you say it facetiously) would clearly not strike that balance.
I personally think that our current limits pretty much do that, in
that they cater for what all should be able to manage safely. If you
think they are too low then that is telling you something about the way
that the standard of driving is actually viewed by the authorities
(i.e. it is not safe to let all our drivers assess what is a safe speed
for the circumstances beyond our current limits because they don't have
the skill level to equip them to do it safely)
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 13:29 |
spokey wrote:
livvy wrote:
I would say again it means that you have moved over a line from a legal
speed to an illegal one. It means nothing more in the abscence of any
other evidence. Driving at 70mph doesn't infer that you are a safe
driver anymore than driving at 71 infers you are a dangerous one.
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But if I'm driving illegally, then it doesn't matter whether I'm
dangerous or safe. If I'm in excess of the (ludicrously outdated) speed
limit, then I must, per se,
be driving dangerously. Or are you saying that a person can safely
drive at speeds greater than the UK national speed limit? If that is
the case, then why is there an emphasis on speed to the exclusion of
everything else whenever I hear anything about road safety?
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When you are prosecuted for speeding there is no requiremnt to show
danger. It is not being alleged that what you were doing at that time
was dangerous. If what you were doing at the time was dangerous then
the charge would be dangerous driving.
With speeding it is that you went beyond the legal limit, no more no
less. You can be prosecuted for dangerous driving at speeds above or below the
limit, but it won't be based on the speed alone.
It can be safe to drive at speeds above our speed limits where the
conditions permit, but without an exemption it is not legal to. As I
have explained many times the limit is a preventative measure.
The view that road safety is about speed to the exclusion of all else is yours, not mine.
The dumbing down with speed is used to cater for other inadequacies, but people are
dealt with for many other offences, which if you care to check
court records you would be able to see.
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 14:23 |
livvy wrote:
When you are prosecuted for speeding there is no requiremnt to show
danger. It is not being alleged that what you were doing at that time
was dangerous.
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But if it's not dangerous, why is it illegal?
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Ciao,
Spokey
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livvy
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-November-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 745
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 14:37 |
spokey wrote:
livvy wrote:
When you are prosecuted for speeding there is no requiremnt to show
danger. It is not being alleged that what you were doing at that time
was dangerous.
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But if it's not dangerous, why is it illegal?
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To prevent potential danger.
Just like wearing your seatbelt is , just like having to wear a
crash helmet is, just like not using your phone while driving is.
Edited by livvy
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My views expressed are just that.
Mine & mine alone.
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spokey
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Offensive and obnoxious tub of lard
Joined: 02-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1948
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 15:02 |
livvy wrote:
just like having to wear a
crash helmet is
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Blimey! When did that come in?
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Ciao,
Spokey
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Gretchen
Newbie
Joined: 04-December-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 10
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 15:41 |
livvy wrote:
spokey wrote:
livvy wrote:
When you are prosecuted for speeding there is no requiremnt to show
danger. It is not being alleged that what you were doing at that time
was dangerous.
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But if it's not dangerous, why is it illegal?
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To prevent potential danger.
Just like wearing your seatbelt is , just like having to wear a
crash helmet is, just like not using your phone while driving is.
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I have been reading this discussion with much interest.
I agree with Livvy. The state must control the population using
whatever means are at it's disposal. Nothing is more important
than the state; no individual or group shall be allowed any form of
control. Severe social regimentation and forcible suppression of
opposition to the government must be implemented at all times.
Zero tolerance of seemingly minor infringements such as speeding must
be enforced if we are to maintain effective control of the populace.
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Rhys
Moderator Group
Coffee addict...
Joined: 02-February-2003
Location: from the Latin locātiō
Status: Offline
Points: 10053
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 16:03 |
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped..
No BMW as yet...
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 17:03 |
Spokey, there are many people in the IAM, I have heard this critism before.
Some of you will not like me, some of you will, if you don't like one observer, they'll find you another.
I can understand people not liking the image of the IAM, I'm not overly keen on some of it, but I can't change it from the outside, there are also people from within who want the more performance orientated like me removed !
Although many of you don't like limits etc, they are what we have now.......
How can we improve things ?
Spokey seems to think adbanced driving is the way, I do too, any others ?
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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Rhys
Moderator Group
Coffee addict...
Joined: 02-February-2003
Location: from the Latin locātiō
Status: Offline
Points: 10053
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 17:37 |
I used to know a lass who was a member of the IAM, but for motorbikes (and I expect for cars as well). She used to go on rides with the IAM group she was with - and wasn't very happy at the way they rode, instead of practicing safe legal speeds they all went well over the limit which she refused to do. Incidently she rides/rode a BMW.
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped..
No BMW as yet...
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 18:18 |
So if the IAM bothers you, and you think advanced driving is a possible alternative to the technology being talked about, how about this crew ?
http://www.roada.org.uk/
I only suggest the IAM as I'm in it, and they are campaigning ( at last ) for the motorist
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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Rhys
Moderator Group
Coffee addict...
Joined: 02-February-2003
Location: from the Latin locātiō
Status: Offline
Points: 10053
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 18:32 |
Nigel, the IAM doesn't bother me at all. I will be looking into it more seriously next year - the thing that puts me off at the moment is the time. I currently work a lot of Saturdays so this only leaves open Sunday mornings. Reading the IAM online litriture (if I've reads it correctly) says 2 Saturday mornings and 2 Sunday mornings a month.
Hopefully next year I won't be working as many Saturdays
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped..
No BMW as yet...
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Nigel
Moderator Group
Joined: 09-November-2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6941
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 18:35 |
Have a word with your local group Rhys, when your ready, they will normally do everything they can to accomodate someone, and are well aware there aren't that many left doing 9 -5 mon - fri etc.
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Best Wishes
Nigel
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Rhys
Moderator Group
Coffee addict...
Joined: 02-February-2003
Location: from the Latin locātiō
Status: Offline
Points: 10053
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Posted: 05-December-2005 at 18:50 |
Nigel wrote:
Have a word with your local group Rhys, when your ready, they will normally do everything they can to accomodate someone, and are well aware there aren't that many left doing 9 -5 mon - fri etc. |
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V reg Rustbucket Merc C220 Cdi estate J Reg Saab 900i 16v '63 Ford Anglia 105e deluxe R reg Honda PC50 moped..
No BMW as yet...
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