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2002SportEvo 
Senior Member II
Joined: 30-June-2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 247
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 Posted: 26-July-2004 at 13:17 |
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Can anyone tell me about the WB02 that keeps getting mentioned ? Can you buy a WB02 instead of the standard BMW sensor - will it interface OK with the Motronic ECU ?
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piers66
Senior Member II
Joined: 17-January-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 224
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Posted: 01-August-2004 at 10:08 |
Having recently fitted the Maxx A-n system I can say that the electrical side of the installation is straightforward (which was the part I was concerned about) and the car started/idled straight from the box.
Be aware, however that you will have to relocate power steering reservoir (v.easy) and brake reservoir (remote reservoir & bracket need fabricating - care with strut braces). Also some fabrication/modification of breather pipes required. None of this is "difficult" but a pain when you didn't realise it was necessary.
Cost of Maxx with airbox approx £1300-£1400 incl VAT & postage (depends on airbox required).
I'll post power/torque readout once I've had mapping done in next couple of weeks (std rebuilt 215 engine), but unfortunately haven't got a "before" run.
I'm also getting airfilter fabricated for snorkel - i'll post details once I've got it. BTW I'm quite pleased that with airbox car is not ridiculously loud (quieter than a 1340 MG Midget)
Cheers
Piers
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piers66
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2002SportEvo
Senior Member II
Joined: 30-June-2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 247
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Posted: 02-August-2004 at 08:22 |
Piers
Are you mapping the system yourself or are you getting someone to do it for you ? Whats your thoughts on the AN system so far ? How does it run on the standard map supplied ?
Cheers
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M3Pilot
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 31-October-2002
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 340
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Posted: 02-August-2004 at 17:31 |
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The car runs fine on the base maps, a bit chuggy when cold, but that soon cleared. They will need some fine tuning, as they are on the rich side.
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UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
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Posted: 02-August-2004 at 18:18 |
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2002SportEvo,
I had a little conversation with Martin (MAXX).
If you buy a WBO2 unit like TechEdge, you can use the MAXX Alpha-N to DISPLAY the WBO2 readings but the cloosed loop control will be done by the BMW ECU via the NBO2 (narrow Band O2) signal from the TechEdge. Or you just leave the BMW NBO2 sensor in place. This will require a second weld bung for the WBO2 sensor. Converting to Alpha-N is NOT a plug'n'play job. Even if the car runs with the base maps you will have to check the AFR and most likely to adjust the fuel map. Alpha-N is based on the information stored in the map. There will be no more measurements taken (like the AFM currently does) to run the engine. Load (Alpha, the angle of the trottle -> your right foot) and Revs (-N) are the only parameter to determine the fuelling. Of course correction factors are in place like air temp, water temps etc. But they are only for correction of different ambient conditions. If you fuel map is too lean, it will stay too lean and damage your engine.
If you don't fancy all this WBO2 stuff, just give it to someone with good rolling road facilities and knowledge and it will be set up for you. According to Martin the midrange can be perfectly set up just with the NBO2 sensor installed. Just make sure the sensor is new(ish)
I will go the full monty and get WBO2 and MAXX as soon my finances have recovered from my engine rebuild desaster. I just like the idea to be in control of the fuelling myself. And if you add cams or anything else you will be able to remap it yourself rather than waiting for someone else to do it.
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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piers66
Senior Member II
Joined: 17-January-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 224
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Posted: 02-August-2004 at 18:51 |
Like Martin said (and Martin & I had some discussion when I was installing) the unit runs OK with std settings (in fact there is an "airbox" std setting which I wasn't initially aware of.
I'm going to get mapping done professionally, but hopefully will be there when it is done.
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piers66
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Sunny
Groupie
Joined: 04-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 66
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Posted: 02-August-2004 at 21:55 |
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Hi guys I don't know if this is of interest to you but currently there is a group buy on the Maxx Alpha n on www.s14.net
Sunny
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BMG M3
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 26-April-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: 02-August-2004 at 22:10 |
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I'd like to see some dyno graphs of the difference between the small airbox and the large airbox. People seem beside themselves to buy a copy of the huge late DTM airbox to fit to an engine thats probably making 120BHP ( 370 BHP late DTM , an average of 250 BHP for a modded engine ) less than the airbox was designed for.
From what I've been told , the smaller and cheaper airbox will give more torque for engines under 300BHP . Maybe something for you guys who are looking to buy ,to investigate further.
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kevin
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 29-November-2002
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
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Posted: 02-August-2004 at 22:20 |
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But isn't bigger always better.
Sunny where are the Group Buy details? I must have missed that.
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Kevin
'04 E46 330Ci Convertible
'08 E61 535d Touring (TorqueMeister Towbarge)
’95 E34 M5
’89 E30 M3 (Cecotto)
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2002SportEvo
Senior Member II
Joined: 30-June-2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 247
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Posted: 03-August-2004 at 08:02 |
Uwe
Thanks for that info on the Maxx - sounds the business. One other thought, if you run the 98 RON map - the lambda function will be disabled - hence, the NBO2 signal to the BMW ECU will not be used ? Do you agree ?
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UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
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Posted: 03-August-2004 at 08:15 |
 2002SportEvo wrote:
Uwe
Thanks for that info on the Maxx - sounds the business. One other thought, if you run the 98 RON map - the lambda function will be disabled - hence, the NBO2 signal to the BMW ECU will not be used ? Do you agree ? |
correct. That's called open loop.
The lambda correction is anyway only working for midrange. If the throttle is fully open and the AFM is fully open the fueling is not affected by the lambda signal at all.
That's why it is important to check the AFR after putting some cams in. Midrange might be fine because of the AFM and cloosed loop, but WOT might be way out.
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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2002SportEvo
Senior Member II
Joined: 30-June-2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 247
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Posted: 03-August-2004 at 09:58 |
I suppose if running open loop, the sensor might as well be disconnected ? - i.e. with the 98 Map
Have registered with S14.net - loads of stuff on AN there - looks like a good site.
Cheers
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M3Pilot
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 31-October-2002
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 340
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Posted: 03-August-2004 at 17:45 |
BMG M3 wrote:
I'd like to see some dyno graphs of the difference between the small airbox and the large airbox. People seem beside themselves to buy a copy of the huge late DTM airbox to fit to an engine thats probably making 120BHP ( 370 BHP late DTM , an average of 250 BHP for a modded engine ) less than the airbox was designed for.
From what I've been told , the smaller and cheaper airbox will give more torque for engines under 300BHP . Maybe something for you guys who are looking to buy ,to investigate further. |
I've seen the plots and to be honest there's not much in it. A couple of BHP at the most.
In theory ( I think?) the bigger box should make more torque due to the greater length of the intake runners. But I would also say that the are a bigger dia than the small box so it evens thinks out as it will slow down the intake velocity. As it's a copy of a DTM airbox where talking about cars that where reving to 9.5-10k. So your going to need some serious airflow at those RPM's.
I don't feel it is something that we would notice, but who cares they sound awesome!
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E30 M3 Alpha N