Oil for E30 M3

Thanks Simon, thats very interesting stuff.
I'm normally a bit sceptical on the old 'my oil is better than your oil' type threads but I can see the science behind it.

I will find out more about the Valvoline stuff I have and will get back to you via PM soon'ish.

One question for the forum though, I have read on an oil company's oil tech sheet that a tip is to not change your oil filter everytime you change oil as they work better the dirtier they get, the gravel bed effect?
They work their best just before they block (obviously a bit of a stupid risk to take!) and that some race teams will use a single filter for an entire season!
What do you make of that? I always thought it was a false economy to not change the filter at every interval.

Cheers

Mags

I would check out Redline too Mark, it's not the cheapest but it does seem very good stuff and is a true synthetic oil, It's poly ester-based oil. It has done very well on all the wear test that I have seen.

I don't know if Oilman has an opinion on Redline. It would be good to here his thoughts?.

Redline's site

Redline.

It may be best that all Redline fans close their ears or look away at this point, you may not like what you read!

Some basics first.

A good oil must be quite low in viscosity even in the cold, so that it gets around the engine in a fraction of a second on start-up. On the other hand, it must also protect engine components (piston rings for example) at temperatures up to 300 deg C without evaporating or carbonising, and maintain oil pressure.

Unmodified thin oils simply can't manage this balancing act. The answer is to use a mixture of thin oil and temperature sensitive polymer, so as the thin oil gets even thinner with increasing temperatures as the engine warms up, the polymer expands and fights back, keeping the viscosity at a reasonable level to hold oil pressure and film thickness on the bearings.

All oils have a viscosity index which is the number indicating that rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range (10w-40 vs 10w-40) but here it the important thing...............

They do not give an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown! (The oil film tearing or shearing)

This is all down to a very important additive called a Viscosity Index improver and it is critical that this is shear stable.

VI improvers like all other things in life vary in quality and this is down to cost and availability.

In other words, an oil can look great on paper and make impressive claims but, unless all the components are of high quality it will fail to perform under the most arduous conditions.

I asked John Rowland the Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist for 40 years to give me his opinion on U.S. oils (including Redline) for

another car club and below was his reply:

 

Quote:

 

Simon,

 

Redline and all U.S. oils. The main problem with these is that all American Oils have "low grade" Viscosity improvers in them. Good ones are just not available in the states due to the fact that they are just not required for the majority of American engines.

 

The consequence of this is, although the oils look good on paper with high VI indexes etc they have low grade inprovers so they have a tendency to "shear down" causing a lack of back pressure.

 

For example, the oil you are using may be a 10w-40 but could be operating when hot a 20!

 

JR

 

Unquote:

 

I was intrigued by Johns answer and wanted to know how he knew it was the case in the U.S. that good quality VI improvers were not available. His reply was as follows:

 

Quote:

 

We have found it is impossible to source shear stable VI improvers

in the U.S.A. even for ready money!

 

Unquote:

 

Bear in mind here that Fuchs/Silkolene is the largest independent Lube Oil Manufacturer in the World and has facilities in the U.S. 

 

So, there you have it, another expensive oil that is not all it's cracked up to be!

 

Mis-information abounds in the oil world and looking behind the marketing hype and claims is impossible unless of course you are a chemist and able to look deep into the oils make-up which neither you nor I can do!

 

This may be the time to tell you all something that you will probably not be aware of.

 

FUCHS, the parent company of SILKOLENE supplies 30% of all BMW's oils for factory fill. More than 5,000,000 litres per annum so it is probably fair to say that BMW trust them and.................your car has a 30% chance of arriving in this country with FUCHS oil in it!

 

Sorry If I've offended anyone but I promised to be frank and honest.

 

Cheers

Simon

 

Don't mail them verbatum, I'll ask John to compose the pertinant question for us regarding their VI Improvers and I'll post it here then you can ask the question in a way that will produce the correct info.

I'll get back as soon as I have the question composed.

Cheers

Simon

Simon,

Thanks for the excellent information. As you said, there is a lot of hype about regarding oils, so it's refreshing to see a scientifically based judgement.

Shoestring 7

Do not use a fully synthetic oil for running in.

The engine needs to bed in and you should use decent mineral oil or an MC semi-synthetic. (10w-40, 15w-40, 15w-50)

In the days of old, when engines were less highly stressed, minerals were the recommended oils but as MC synthetics are modified mineral oils they are perfectly good for running-in and afford a higher level of protection.

Cheers

Simon 

 

 

 

oilman, hello, I have been watching this thread like many other people i'm sure.

I have a 1985 M635CSI (Non-Highline) that has just had a rebuild.
What oil would you recomend using, I do not really understand what you mean by "MC Synthetic"

In my E30 320is I run 10w40 Castrol GTX Magnatex

I am just getting more and more worried about what to put in the car once it can be fired up.

Cheers

Luke

I've beeen thinking about this at work today (bored as usual) and this is such a broad and complex subject that it is well above my knowledge. I'm not a chemist or chemical engineer.
When I got my first E30 M3 I was using Castrol RS 10w60 and was happy enough. But it got me thinking that there must be some other stuff out there that is probably more suited or better than what I was using, and I wanted the best protection I could get. But maybe I made the wrong choice with Redline.
I try to run a fully synth as I feel it is better for the engine. I'm not really worried about cost as long as I feel I'm doing the right thing.

So I basically searched the net to find out what I could, asked people and tried to understand the info.

I considered a few but ended up using Redline, because of the test info I'd read and the info on their site and people I'd talked to. I know it is their own site and there to promote the products they make. But it still made a good case.

I would like to find out more info, but all that I have seen so far tends to contradict each other. Everyone is going to say thet their product is better the the next one, Mobil, Castrol, who ever. So it's very hard to form an opinion on what is best to do for most of us. I think we try to do what best rather than cut corners with something as important as oil, same as brakes and tyres in IMO.

I have just changed the oil on my Sport Evo as it had Magnatec in there. It had less that 100 miles on that oil as it was changed before I bought the car, but I wanted somthing that IMO was a better oil.
So I put some Redline in there.

I guess I might have some more searching to do.

Simon,
Do you know anything about these ASTM tests? I know there is a High temp high shear test (ASTM D4624?) that as far as I can work out is the sort of condition that has been stated above where the American oils are not suppose to do very well.
Once again I'm not claiming to know anything about this subject and these tests could be biased towards companies like Redline/Amsoil and their oils. But they appear to do well in these tests?.

Do you consider oil anylysis a good ideal for anyone who is serious to find out how well the oil they use is at doing it's job?.
I have considsdered doing this, but never really looked into the cost and finding somewhere that does it.

Simon,

Can you tell me if/or what the difference between the ester that Silkolene use and the polyol ester that Redline use. Or are they basically starting with same/simular basestock?

I wouldn't say that I have any real brand loyality, I just use what I feel if the best for my application and that gives me peace of mind when I'm heading for 8k rpm!
If that happends to be Silkolene, Redline, Mobil 1 or Happy Shopper oil then that is what i will use.

The people who I know that have had their oil tested it was usually after a few thousand miles, they got a break down chemical analysis of what was in there.It gave them pointers on what to look out for and potential problems, whether they need to change it yet or if it was good for another 5k.

I will happily send you a sample of Redline is you wish. Used or un used. The grade I use is 15w50. I will have to find something to put it in. I do find this all very interesting and it's great to get some solid info rather than hearsay and from the bloke down the pub.

It will be interesting to see the reply that Redline make. They have always been helpful before, But I haven't really asked them anything technical as I lack the knowledge to do so.

I have send you a PM asking for your oil recommendation for my application.

Edited by M3Pilot

M3 Pilot,

I think the ester used by Silkolene is "Polyol" but there are about 6 different catagories - I've asked JR to enlighten us!

Sample of Redline, unused please and about the same as a medical sample jar will do Sealed please!

Cheers

Simon