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Peter H View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: New F1 Engine format Agreed ?
    Posted: 29-May-2004 at 17:25

Autosport reports New Format agreed,

 

New engine format agreed

F1 to use 2.4-litre V8 engines from 2006 in bid to reduce power output
The 3-litre V10 will be a thing of the past in 2006

Autosport can reveal that Formula 1's major engine manufacturers have reached agreement in principle about the future format of the sport's engine regulations.

Subject to ratification, F1 cars will run 2.4-litre V8 engines as from the 2006 season.

Power reduction and cost saving are the key motives behind the change from the current 3-litre V10 engines, which have seen power outputs climb in excess of 900bhp.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-May-2004 at 18:20
FIA. So what will the V 10 Engine manufactorers do with the vastly expensive set up, that they were going to use, ala BMW M 5, for more V 10 road cars. Suppose they can always chop 2 cylinders off !!!!!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2004 at 10:39

IMHO this will be a backwards move as a V10 will always sound better than a V8.

The current engines sound fantastic, far better than any V8.

Any change will just cost more money as the larger Teams will undertake a large amount of R&D to extract the best performance they can with in the rules.

This is supposed to be F1 not F3000/Nissan World Series

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2004 at 16:12

Yes, not as easy as it looks,

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2004 at 20:02

-most engines are developed as single-cylinder units on the dyno first of all, then scaled up at a later date. A V8 is just going to cost 80% of the cost of a V10 to overhaul, and they get through several engines every race weekend. It is a major cost; if you don't have a competitive engine, you're nowhere- look at Jordan. A few seasons ago they were vying for the title, now they are also-rans. All because of the engine deal. If Honda had gone with them rather than BAR they would be up front right now. As it is, they are serious danger of becoming another Minardi, no matter how clever their chassis designers are.

-I don't think we'll notice the difference in engine note. A V8 is only going to be about one full tone off the sound of a V10 at the same speed.

-and 730BHP is plenty in a modern chassis. Note this season they are two seconds a lap faster at most tracks. TWO seconds..... think how much you have  to spend to do that on a road car..... If they do the V8 thing they will, I predict, be slower for one year only. If it makes for more competive racing, I say bring it on....


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2004 at 20:08

Or maby not !

 

BMW expects V8 rethink

Mario Theissen expects manufacturer U-turn on engine rules
Mario Theissen believes the V8 option is the wrong one for F1

Hot on the heels of Autosport.com reporting yesterday that F1's engine manufacturers had reached agreement on the way forward from 2006, using 2.4-litre V8s, BMW Motorsport director Mario Theissen says that already they seem to be performing a U-turn.

“My impression is that some other manufacturers are rethinking their position already since we know that there will be a 600bhp or 600bhp plus Formula 2, ” he said. The V8s, he added, would produce around 700bhp, not a sufficient differential he thinks.

Theissen himself would prefer longer-life versions of the current V10 engines and, at Nurburgring, explained the reasons behind the uncertainty.

“There are several reasons to vote for the V10 and the most important is that the V8 came about three years ago when the technical directors were requested to come up with a 700 horsepower engine,” he said. “At that time there was a discussion about safety and nothing else. Nothing about cost. Some technical and engine people still feel bound by this request. In reality, however, the team principals and Bernie and Max have changed their objectives.

Some other manufacturers are rethinking their position already
Mario Theissen
“The focus is on cost-cutting now, which is quite different. If you need to do a 700 horsepower engine without any cost-cutting measures it would make sense to go to a 2.4-litre V8, but in this case you would have an engine which is maybe 5% less expensive than a V10 and carries the same technology. If at the same time you tried to cut costs by restricting design or materials or extending engine life, you wouldn't have 700bhp anymore but 650bhp or less. If Formula 2 is introduced with 4.0-litre engines and 600bhp plus, I don't see the difference and don't think it would make sense to have a 700bhp F1 engine.

“I think the target has to be readjusted. Today it really is about cost-cutting and that's why I not only vote for a V10 but also for extending engine life. Cost-cutting can best be achieved by extending engine life because it means you build less engines per year and parts cost are the biggest proportion of the engine budget.”
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2004 at 22:18
I'll believe it when I see it!

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But don't care.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2004 at 10:21

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport and with all this talk of tinkering with the regulations to “put on a better show” we are in danger of loosing sight of the aim here.

 

F1 has and should always be an arena for technical design and innovation, both on the chassis and engine.

 

We have over the last few years seen Variable Valve Timing (Honda) and sequential gear boxes (Ferrari) as a direct result of F1.

 

I believe that the main area for concern is the aero design. This is the harder element to regulate, but one that would produce greater racing if cars where able to follow each other closer through a corner.

 

I hope the likes of Mario resist the temptation and stand firm with the current engine rules.

 

IMHO the reason for the drop in lap times this year can be mainly attributed to the tyre war as both Michelin and Bridgestone have worked extremely hard in the advancement of tyre technology (again this will filter down to road cars).

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2004 at 12:34

 For obvious reasons, BMW, Ferrari ,Toyoto , Renault ,will be reluctant to see a change in regs, when they have found success at great costs ,with their engines.Mercedes/illmor-Cosworth-Honda- are still having problems.

Mario T says the new 2.4 V8 will produce around 700BHP, Why??   We had 800-850BHP in the old V8 days, and that was a lifetime ago.If the new 2.4 means you dont have to rebuild it after 4 hrs running , then that Would make sense, and millions can be saved . Not all competition engine parts are progress, when they are used in our high performance road cars,they are not as developed or reliable as they should be.

100 Ltr fuel max, No stops, =  Track, Not Pit win., or if one stop is allowed race distance to be 2.5 hour Min.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2004 at 18:41

-the old V8s were much bigger engines tho'. It isn't really a fair comparison.

-I agree F1 ought to be the pinnacle of motorsport but if they could find a way of making close racing, more overtaking etc even with technically 'inferior' cars it would still get my vote.

-in a way I think we saw the best racing in the turbo era; people could dial in about another 100bhpanytime they chose to, knowing it was a biot of a roll of the dice as to whether the engine would last ten minutes or ten seconds afterwards. These days they can do the same thing to a degree with the rev limiter but they don't get enough more power to make things really interesting, IMHO.

cheers

 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2004 at 22:08
Went to Silverstone today, there is strong feeling that both RS & JPM might not last the year, RS was not on entry list for Indy earlier in week. Expect change in stratagy also, more like Ferrari, with No 1 & no2 Drivers, Also Sato fastest, another test going on at Monza, Davidson Quickest, BAR doing well now JV out    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2004 at 18:08
 BUT----you should have mailed me Peter, we could have Both tested for Frank, After My Rockingham test,s  on Tuesday, in the CSL and M3,s  I was All fired up ,not fussy if 1 or 2, Unlike JV. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2004 at 19:37
Ah but John, took what was the only car of its type there, not for sale to public for couple of weeks, Not a BMW but is quick, Unfortunatly all boy racers round Banbury seemed to home in
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