sticky tyres |
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grant w
Really Senior Member II Joined: 26-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 558 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 14:10 |
i'm just reading the pre-drive checks sheet for rockingham
1. wheels & tyres Plenty of tread please and make sure your wheel nuts are tight. (tyre pressures need to be up a bit). is'nt there something missing , you get people to book BDD's take there money , send out the paperwork a week before the event so there's no way they can cancell and get a refund and then tell them sorry no track tyres , when there is no mention on the forms anywhere that track tyres cannot be used .. |
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www.redevom3.co.uk 1989 e30 m3 2.5 1996 e36 m3 evo , sold 2002 e46 m3 smg . 1991 Daihatsu 2.8 TD Work Horse Rust Never Sleeps . Tattooed Lady - Bearded Baby - there my family .. |
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therealmccoy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 27-April-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 552 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 16:04 |
Just shows what a shower the BMW Car club are, and how full of the aformentioned shower the people that are saying it's a safety issue! James edited to remove 'objectionable language' - please follow the guidelines Edited by Webdunk |
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Work Harder! A Million Benefit Claimants Depend On YOU!
E30 M3, The REAL McCoy! 89 M3 Now Sold 99 323i *FOR SALE* PC Probs?? Click here! |
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Nick
Bavarian-Board Contributor BMWCC Area Organiser Yorks & Humber Joined: 21-October-2002 Location: God’s own county... Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1319 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 18:17 |
Grant,
That bit of the pre-drive check sounds ever so familiar.. I could have wrote that myself. Have they 'lifted' my Croft documents? I penned all that for our first Croft back in '96 when I was still wet behind the ears. It is just common sense stuff allied to a few scrutineering pointers I picked up along the way. It is not the be all and end all.. it is just a little helper for the novice who may have left a carrier bag of shopping on the back seat never mind not dipping the engine oil. James... we don't all use that shower.. watch it! Nick, Croft'04 |
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therealmccoy
Really Senior Member II Joined: 27-April-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 552 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 18:35 |
Nick, I mean no offence to you. My comments are aimed at the people that have gone out of their way to ban these tyres for various reasons, then don't mention it ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!
It is a question of consistancy, people that orgainise these events do so on behalf of the Car Club. So descisions that they take are again on behalf of the club. So unless the Car Club veto descisions, they are behind them 100%... |
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Work Harder! A Million Benefit Claimants Depend On YOU!
E30 M3, The REAL McCoy! 89 M3 Now Sold 99 323i *FOR SALE* PC Probs?? Click here! |
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kevin
Bavarian-Board Contributor Joined: 29-November-2002 Location: Camberley, Surrey Status: Offline Points: 3189 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 18:35 |
Nick, the docs are identical. Sorry Grant but road tyres for me. I need to get the "nut behind the steering wheel" sorted first so I will be getting instruction. I want to be in good shape in the M3 for Croft.
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Kevin
'04 E46 330Ci Convertible '08 E61 535d Touring (TorqueMeister Towbarge) ’95 E34 M5 ’89 E30 M3 (Cecotto) |
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grant w
Really Senior Member II Joined: 26-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 558 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 20:27 |
the point i'm trying to make is that , any one just joining the the club books a BDD , gets the paper work reads the rules and regs , and there's no mention about what tyres to use or not to use ,. not all members of the club use this forum , expect not all members have internet access , so this fact should be stated on the booking form and on the paperwork that comes with your tickets , when i rang the office to confirm my booking for rockingham , i asked all the usual questions , signing on time , briefing time , start and finishing time , it'll all be on the paperwork that you'll recieve , is there anything else i should need to know about the day ? , no all you need to know will be sent to you with your tickets , no mention of the most important issue at the moment !! NO TRACKDAY TYRES ,
i use R compound tyres to keep the costs down i bought my set in oct 02 and i'm still using then now , i have them turned on the rims after a couple of outings , thats value for money , theres no way in the world you could do that on road tyres i don't care how good a driver you are a e30 m3 will scrub out it's front tyres in no time , another point is that at croft last year the driver of the day award went to simon potts , myself second , can't remember the guys name how came third , we were all driving e30 m3's and all on stickies , as voted by the marshalls to be the best drivers on that day , and then the club turns round and says your type is not wanted if you want to drive like that go to a track day , that says it all ... Edited by grant w |
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www.redevom3.co.uk 1989 e30 m3 2.5 1996 e36 m3 evo , sold 2002 e46 m3 smg . 1991 Daihatsu 2.8 TD Work Horse Rust Never Sleeps . Tattooed Lady - Bearded Baby - there my family .. |
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Nick
Bavarian-Board Contributor BMWCC Area Organiser Yorks & Humber Joined: 21-October-2002 Location: God’s own county... Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1319 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 21:38 |
I'll pretend I didn't hear that! |
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Nick
Bavarian-Board Contributor BMWCC Area Organiser Yorks & Humber Joined: 21-October-2002 Location: God’s own county... Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1319 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 21:41 |
I'll pretend I didn't hear that! |
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grant w
Really Senior Member II Joined: 26-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 558 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 21:42 |
sorry nick i'll edit that bit out if you want ..
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www.redevom3.co.uk 1989 e30 m3 2.5 1996 e36 m3 evo , sold 2002 e46 m3 smg . 1991 Daihatsu 2.8 TD Work Horse Rust Never Sleeps . Tattooed Lady - Bearded Baby - there my family .. |
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John W
Really Senior Member II Joined: 01-November-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 630 |
Posted: 29-February-2004 at 22:47 |
That is an excellent point......CLUB OFFICIALS.....ARE YOU READING THIS???!!!!!!! Not you Nick.....you the man! |
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jon90
Really Senior Member II Joined: 11-January-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 653 |
Posted: 01-March-2004 at 00:39 |
Nick,
Have you been forced to toe the line at your Croft 04 event?If not send me some details,I like the idea of a drivers day being run by a driver and not a spit& polish merchant. Just an observation,but its funny that most here posting against this tyre ban drive E30M3`s.Makes you feel victimised doesn`t it! Jon |
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Big Vern
Newbie Joined: 22-December-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30 |
Posted: 01-March-2004 at 11:45 |
Eee,well. Ive never done a trackday in my private car in my life but Im trying to get my 1983 635CSi ready in time to have a crack at the one at Croft just down the road from me. All I can see about this sticky tyre thing is this, bring em all on, sticky tyres or not I whill scare the pants out of these boyos in the M3's et all'. Its down to the driver you see! And Im a bloody good one, after spending the last nine years pursuing stolen vehicles on our public highways at ridiculous speeds Ive learned the hard way. Oh yes, you might get an oodle or two extra of grip but thats defeating the object of a better driving day in my eyes? Shouldnt you be out there on the track in your road set up so that you find the limits of your car in a safe environment? Its all about learning understeer,oversteer,reading ahead and control. Let alone learning about the physics of car handling and weight distribution. Incase you havent already tumbled, this is meant as a light hearted thread, but the point I make is serious enough. I think for "better driving days" you should be there in almost standard road set up. Its the only way to get know your car intimately so that you can use it safely on a public highway.
Edited by Big Vern |
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dom_k
Really Senior Member I sideways Joined: 06-April-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 335 |
Posted: 01-March-2004 at 13:34 |
On the sheet i have for Rockingham it says "no sticky road tyres" under the ELIGIBILITY section on the information sheet...
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www.dkperformanceimports.co.uk
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John W
Really Senior Member II Joined: 01-November-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 630 |
Posted: 01-March-2004 at 15:01 |
Well Big Vern....we'll see you at Croft. But don't you agree on the safety argument......ie track tyres are safer for the track because that is what they were designed for? I mean, if having your road set-up is so important, shall we leave our helmets at home, play Radio 2 nice and loud and and have our mother in the passenger seat? Sorry to act daft, but this thread is making me depressed. Where's the Prozac? |
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Big Vern
Newbie Joined: 22-December-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30 |
Posted: 02-March-2004 at 00:56 |
Take your point John, but arent better driving days supposed to be more focused at improving driver skills? Never done one so cant really comment, but I imagine the helmet is probably a requirement for health and safety. As opposed to a balls out track day with a kind of race what you bring idea. Your not acting daft by the way. Way I see it is that the fitment of all these fancy tyres wont really help if you dont understand the basics in the first place. Lets lighten this up a little bit. Ive done hods of track days on bikes and was never one to fit super stickies for the track. Last plastic rocket I had on a track was my CBR900RR and that was on Bridgestone BT010's which were its road tyres. Anyone who knows bikes will tell you that the BT10 is quite a soft compound anyway but I found it to be more than adequate on a track for my ability. John, you mention safety issues about the sticky boots, could it not be argued that with a road tyre you know when youve run out of grip when it starts to squeal and thats your cue to do something about it before you meet the scenery. Maybe Ive got the wrong end of the stick, but I really thought there was a different focus to the "better driving days" rather than "race days", Im absolutely determined to get the old heinkel sorted so I can have a run out around croft (Gently I hasten to add, its a classic!) Last time I drove a track was Silverstone with a couple of bods in from Volvo, when I was demonstrating the problems with the original 850 T5 brakes, there wasnt any! |
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lancelotII
Really Senior Member II Joined: 24-November-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 853 |
Posted: 02-March-2004 at 09:23 |
I'll pick up for John here (I am sure he won't mind). This perpetual bo**ocks that is spouted that R compound tyres grip up to a point and then just let go is utter nonsense. They don't, look at it this way, do you really think they would sell any if they did. Given the amount that are used a real track days, they would have a pretty bad reputation if that were the case. The speed differential that the R compound provides is probably less than 10mph per corner, but the improvement in stability and security is about 75%. Even in the wet, they are better than any road tyre (except monsoon conditions). If you overcook it and get on the marbles, well that extra grip may well just prevent that trip across the grass into the armco, the same can't be said for any road tyre in any condition. As an aside, the insurance issue may be a red herring. As you know the very nice Mr Palmer has bought Brands and it's associated circuits. One of the rulings they have bought in, is that if you damage any part of the circuit, i.e armco etc. You pay. I haven't seen any other track day companies that have barred the use of R compounds or slicks, in fact most of them positively encourage the use of them. |
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Big Vern
Newbie Joined: 22-December-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30 |
Posted: 02-March-2004 at 12:03 |
Lancelot, take your point but it comes back round to the question I posed. Is a better driving day not all about improving your skills and awareness with your steed in its roadgoing spec and format? I might have the wrong end of the stick here mind? Tyres are amazing things, Ive always been fascinated by them, no seriously! I remember getting a V plate S70 T5 at work, brand new and it was fitted with Michelins, cant remember the model. It was terrifying in the wet at high speed. Problem became so bad that the tyres were binned at the first 3000 mile service and replace with Eagle F1's which were stickier that a sticky thing in the wet and superb in the dry. I once did a two day course at Dunlop all about tyres and compounds etc,etc. It all hinges on raising the co-efficient of friction which in turn equates to more grip. Very interesting stuff, theres more to tyres than the colour black I tell you!!
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Howard
Moderator Group Did I say thaaaat? Joined: 14-October-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 735 |
Posted: 02-March-2004 at 20:35 |
Just to let you know that we do take note of your comments. Whether we take action on them is up to us. I have already taken action on two of your complaints by approaching the track day guys and making the odd suggestion. However, the National Committee generally leaves the work of running track days to the track day guys. They decide what tyres shall or shall not be used. As to rules, click on this link to see the rules as they currently stand, for the Mondello Park meeting later this year. These rules should also be published for all similar events, with slight track dependent modifications. If your point has not been covered, then it most likely will be in a subsequent revision. I will put the rules on a page on the club web site under Better Driving Days, when I change the format later this year. Rules do have to change in the light of experience. In the meantime, you can find a lot more about the issues by looking here. On the subject of always blaming this mysterious body 'the BMW Car Club', you have to remember that all the work (other than day to day office work) is all done by unpaid volunteers like Nick, Killian and myself. If we did not take the time and effort to organise these things, then you would not have a free forum to post on, or a track day to wear out your tyres on, sticky or not. Of course,if you think you can do any better, you could always volunteer. |
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grant w
Really Senior Member II Joined: 26-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 558 |
Posted: 02-March-2004 at 21:14 |
so is somebody who is running the day at rockingham going to tell us what tyres we can and cannot use this saturday , and as there was no mention of no trackday tyres on the paperwork that came with my tickets , it's a bit unfair that with only three days to go there's still no answer ..
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www.redevom3.co.uk 1989 e30 m3 2.5 1996 e36 m3 evo , sold 2002 e46 m3 smg . 1991 Daihatsu 2.8 TD Work Horse Rust Never Sleeps . Tattooed Lady - Bearded Baby - there my family .. |
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B 7 VP
Really Senior Member II Joined: 04-November-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1115 |
Posted: 03-March-2004 at 08:54 |
What did dom_K say on his Post-its 7 back > about Eligibility, is this what youre looking for? SAFETYFAST |
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