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afsar View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20-March-2011 at 22:46

A few days ago I realized that my engine floor isn't as bone dry as it use to be before (as far as my memory goes).

Upon close inspection found that the the pipe which is just below AC pipe is having some traces of oil on this (this is e60 535d). This pipe is on the front left hand side if you have opened the bonnet and looking at the engine from front bumper.

I it quite difficult to even reach the pipes by hand due to the very narrow spece left between front end of the engine and the radiator fan. Don't know what the pipe is for or if this leak has been happening all the time as I never opened the hood to check engine before. As far my memory goes when I bought this car it was dry but again this was years ago so don't remember 100%. Few pics attached here to give you some idea what pipe I am taking about:

 

Also as you can see in this picture there is a leak on the power steering resorvior. Not sure if this could be due to pressure buildup because of constant steering (slight) correction I have to make to keep car straight.

One obvious thing I can think immediately that my car is always parked downhill (5% ish) on my driveway earlier I use to park it outside on the street (one side wheel on the kerb) but then got my driveway clear and have been parking there since long time nowand only drive during the weekend (mostly). First obvious thing to do is to wipe all the oils I can and start parking outside again for a week or so and see if leak disappears; bad luck if it doesn't. Also it will be very difficult to wife the engine pipe, its not reachable, even SLR digital camera had difficulty taking picture from right angle.

How serious is this, anyone experiened it before, specially the pipe leak below AC hose, what exactly is that pipe for? Please advise.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2011 at 08:57

I can't see the pictures at my work pc but...

It could be power steering fluid as there is a cooler for this circuit.
It could be engine oil as there is a cooler for this.
It could be automatic transmission fluid as again you have a cooler for this too.

With the engine water radiator and the air con matrix it makes the front end of any serious car a complex and as you've found out cramped existance.

Don't worry about the power steering weep around the lid of the reservior.  Mine does this, my previous E60 did this as did my E39.  It is a very small weep.  Just check the level regularly.  None of the cars that dribble around the power steering reserviour have ever lost any noticeable fluid that I have had to top up.

I would get it checked by a garage.  If it is automatic transmission fluid you have no way of checking the level so you don't want to be pumping the gearbox dry!  Atleast if it is power steering fluid or engine oil level you can check these with the dipsticks.  The power steering cap has an in built dipstick.

You need to take the car to a different decent body shop to sort out your tracking/suspension issue as you haven't got this fixed 100% going by a recent post.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2011 at 09:56
Not sure if you can follow link here, give it a try:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii91/afsarimam/DSC_023
4.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii91/afsarimam/DSC_023
1-1.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii91/afsarimam/DSC_022
8-1.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii91/afsarimam/DSC_022
7-1.jpg

Having googled a bit I cam to this clear engine picture:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/204071812802/bmw-6-cylinder-
engine---in-depth/photos#61

In the above picture if you look at the pipe which is
going from turbo assembly to the intercooler thats the
pipe I think is leaking.

Stressing on my memory a bit I realized that once I had
my car's under cover stripped off for checking wear and
caster problem and I am certain there was no leak then.
Only mistake I did afterwards is to report turbolag
problem to sh*tty BMW dealership (HR Owen holland park)
and I remember they said it was due to a bad hose and it
has been replaced. Looks like it is botched job from
dealership like all other jobs they did to car in past.
Total waste of time and money. It was done under
warranty, not sure I should ask them to fix it for free
as this is a bad job. I am really scared to go to them
even if they say they will however it is very less likely
as this was done last year and my mistake I didn't opened
hood since then; bloody winter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sporty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2011 at 10:01
Quite a common issue with the 3.0 twin turbo lump, have a read for this

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2011 at 14:57
Hey Sport1, I liked the thread you mentioned above. Good
to know it is nothing so serious as of now but prevention
is better than cure. Thanks to a bit of sunshine today I
managed to see in that dark gap it is the red hose which
is leaking a lot, it has a lot of dirt stuck to it so not
sure if this is causing blockage etc.

I bought this car because of twin turbo and as they say
complete lack of turbo lag due to inline setup. Believe
me I always felt appx. 1 second lag. Today I experimented
a bit and found that idling is around 600-650 rpm and
then then if I floor it she pushes hard but then cross 2k
rpm and it just flies off, there is big surge at 2k+ rpm.
Should this power comes in stages since beginning? Why
all of sudden? I reported this many times to bloody
steelership(s) and they never did anythig, it is hard to
verify and prove, only I know it is a problem but then I
somehow convinced myself to accept this as this is
diesel. I haven't ever had a go in another 535d so can't
compare and this is my first high powered car. Is this
normal for a 535d? You say yes and break my trust
completely from BMW machine (dealership trust is gone
long ago); you say no and it might be a gone small turbo
and I see a big bill coming thru.

I will email the dealership if he accepts he will fix it
under warranty or some sort of goodwill then fine
otherwise will get it done from a local garage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2011 at 15:34
You are probably better off going to an Independant BMW specialist.  A local workshop may not have any experience with the twin turbo set up in a 535d.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-March-2011 at 15:39
Can you please suggest one in London (west) or nearby
locality. Don't want to learn how good the garage is by
experiment just a tried and tested one will help.

Btw. is there a way to test turbos for normal operation? I
believe you drive 535d, don't you? do you see this kind of
surge in power past 2k revs?

Originally posted by Andrew Rolland Andrew Rolland wrote:

You are probably better off going to
an Independant BMW specialist.  A local workshop may not
have any experience with the twin turbo set up in a 535d.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2011 at 08:46

Originally posted by afsar afsar wrote:

Can you please suggest one in London (west) or nearby locality. Don't want to learn how good the garage is by experiment just a tried and tested one will help. 

Sorry bud I live on the correct side of the border.  I was going to suggest that you try posting in the South East part of this forum but the last post was in June 2009......


Originally posted by afsar afsar wrote:

Btw. is there a way to test turbos for normal operation?

I think so, it would need hooked up to a diagnostic machine and then driven.  You won't like this but BMW would be able to do this as would any independant diesel engine specialist.  There is bound to be some in your part of the world.  Try looking in the yellow pages then google the name of the garage to see if it throws up comments on a forum.

Originally posted by afsar afsar wrote:

I believe you drive 535d, don't you? do you see this kind of surge in power past 2k revs? 

Um no I definitley don't drive a diesel....sorry.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sporty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2011 at 09:19
Originally posted by afsar afsar wrote:


Only mistake I did afterwards is to report turbolag
problem to sh*tty BMW dealership (HR Owen holland park)
and I remember they said it was due to a bad hose and it
has been replaced.



If a BMW dealer has replaced that hose, or the seals (as they sometimes do, but it does not sort the issue fully) in the last 2 years then surely it is covered by the 2 years BMW parts and labour warranty.

You will be losing a little boost from this hose leaking also, which would also explain your 'lag' issue.


Edited by Sporty1

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2011 at 17:34
Stealership today replied to my email today saying they
will charge me £72+VAT to "diagnose" it first and only
then they will comment on it further. Conveniently they
ignored part of my email where I told them they did
change the hose in the last attempted repair.

Anyway I am thinking of going to nearby BMW specialist
and get it fixed there first and if turbo is found faulty
or for any reason if bill goes high I would take the
county court route later (only if it is worth it).

This one looks nearby http://www.cpcpe.com/page007.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2011 at 19:05

The £72 will be a standard charge for 'having a look at it' this will be 1 hours labour.  Its a standard enough thing across most garages, it's just the price of motoring.

I would agree with Sporty1.  If they fixed something and it fails within whatever time frame is stated in the small print on the reverse of your invoice, they should be liable for re-fixing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-March-2011 at 22:09
Looking into the invoices I have from BMW I can't find
the one which mentions any hose replacement; Now going
back to history I think it was all verbal; they did not
write anything which went under warranty repair as it was
free. My mistake I should have taken it on invoice.

Either way it would not have helped me as the small print
on other invoices reads this: "We will carry out the work
with reasonable care and skill, and warrant it will
remain free of defects in workmanship for a period of 3
months or 3000 miles, whichever occurs sooner, from the
date the work is completed".

I think I am cornered here. Good to know this without
wasting £72 for so called diagnosis of something which
now I already know - a leaky pipe. Anyway based upon my
previous experience I seriousley doubt they have skillset
to diagnose any further then what you point to.

btw. sorry for a noob question, what oil is it which is
leaking, engine oil or diesel?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sporty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2011 at 09:45
The complete hose, not just the seals, is circa £150+VAT supply only.

You will not have invoice for warranty work, but if it was 'fixed' underwarranty there will be a record for the repair and the dealer will be able to tell you what was done.

Agree to pay for the £72 diagnoses, if the same hose is diagnosed as the problem and was 'fixed ' under warranty then argue that you should not need to pay the £72 diagnoses for warranty work that was supposedly fixed recently under warranty.

ETA County court route??? For what? You need to give them the opportunity to fix the car, you cannot just take it somewhere else and then issue court porceedings. You will lose.

ETAII; What do you mean is it engine oil or diesel oil?

The oil leaking is engine oil it is not diesel fuel.


Edited by Sporty1

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Fenwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2011 at 10:16

Originally posted by Sporty1 Sporty1 wrote:

ETA County court route??? For what? You need to give them the opportunity to fix the car, you cannot just take it somewhere else and then issue court porceedings. You will lose.

 

Exactly. You have to give them a reasonable chance to fix the car before you have any grounds to complain.

As Sporty says, agree to pay for the diagnosis if they find the problem is not connected to the part they replaced under warranty.

Another route of information might be to BMW UK to find out their view on who should pay for the diagnosis in the event that the fault is with a bit replaced under warranty?

If they say anything other than the dealer then sell the car and move to another marque  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2011 at 11:04
Sporty1, that dealership charges £160+VAT/hr. as labour,
it will be a kind of gamble if I let them do it and they
do not honour any repair work done under warranty. Bill
can very easily go in the range of £500+ for revert the
shoddy work they have done previously. Also how do I
trust what they say and what they do is always different.
Also I doubt they will look any further into turbo lag
issue (like last time they didn't despite reporting it
atleast twice). Its all lack of trust.

I quoted county court route because I have given them
chance in past to fix it twice and all they did is made
it worse. I will consult a lawyer before taking this
action; but this is later part.

I will try to sort it with the dealership if it works its
fine or I will go to the independent route, this
dealership is very greedy and incompetent and I am sure
they lack proper technical knowledge to investigate
deeper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-March-2011 at 12:02
Am I right to think the red pipe is
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E60N/Sedan/Europe/53
5d-M57N2/RHD/N/2007/may/browse/engine/turbo_charger/#15

Edited by afsar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sporty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2011 at 09:22
afsar, £160+VAT may well be their labour rate, but you yourself have said that they want £72 to diagnose the fault, let them do this, if the fault is then diagnosed as this pipe that has been fixed twice before then tell them of this fact and tell that all work carried out by them is covered under a 2 year parts and labour warranty.....

If they diagnose another issue then tell them not to proceed and take the car to a specialist for a second opinion.

Your lag issue is probably all part of the same issue, that pipe carries 'boosted' air from the turbos to the intercooler any leaks here will affect performance.


Pipe is part#1





Edited by Sporty1

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-March-2011 at 17:46
Good suggestion mate, I will speak to the dealership first.

The picture you posted above does not contain part number, my car is 2007 LCI model (M57N2) and closest part I could get was this.


Edited by afsar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sporty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2011 at 09:12



BMW part # 1 161 796 293

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote afsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-March-2011 at 16:52

Spoke to my dealership today to findout what parts where replaced under warranty when I reported turbo boost problem last year and they happily gave these two parts numbers:

11.74.7.797.129 and 11.65.7.796.857, basically item number 10 and 15 from the picture below

I am not sure where these pipes are located and whats condition of those ones, as far as I could see it was just the big red pipe (part number as given by Sporty1 above, big thanks for that mate) which is leaking.

I spoke to an independent BMW specialist called Phil from CPCPE and he told me that oil leak from the red pipe and so much lack of turbo boost at low rev may not be related. He continued saying this is very common issue with x35d twin turbo engines where a few blocked pipes can cause the low rev power loss. He quoted me £300 (parts and labour, parts he said is just around £20) to get a few turbo related hoses replaced. Phil said he has seen this problem before and fixed it this way. Regarding oil leak he said it is normal but without seeing it he can't say anything. A split or badly damaged red pipe, he said will cause total powerloss (you car won't go above 60 or so) and there won't be any performance at all. He reckons that your small turbo would be fine (big relief) and little bit of wetness near red pipe is normal.

I will get it fixed whichever way in next two weeks hopefully.

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