E39 Wheel sensor help please |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 13-August-2010 at 22:05 |
Hello All 2000 "W" redg E39 528i SE auto Tonight on the M25 I lost the speedo, and "vacuum" guage, the odometer, and I've the ABS fault light on, & all but temp reading on the OBC. I guess this is all down to one wheel sensor, anyone any experience of this fault, and/or know which wheel sensor it is ?
|
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Sponsored Links | |
kbannon
Admin Group E39 525i Sport Individual Joined: 09-October-2002 Location: 64 Zoo Lane Status: Offline Points: 15508 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You would need it properly diagnosed Nigel as otherwise it would really be guesswork and this can end up costing far more in the end.
|
|
Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor
Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks K On an internet search I found this : Hi guys. I posted this write-up in a separate thread, and several people suggested that I replicate it here. Between the time I first posted it (9/06) and now, I've used the procedure yet again to locate a failed speed sensor. For those keeping score, that means I've replaced three of the four sensors on my 540i in the past two years. The actual sensor replacement is trivial; the tricky part is figuring out which sensor failed. I hope that this can help somebody! ---- Replacement of Wheel Speed Sensor Synopsis: A malfunctioning wheel speed sensor can cause the anti-lock braking and traction control systems to become disabled, among other things. Symptoms: Three lights appear simultaneously on the dashboard: ABS, an amber BRAKE, and the triangular "traction lost" icon. Traction control is not operational, nor is antilock braking. One or more of the speedometer, odometer, or cruise control might also be inoperable. Tools required: Multimeter capable of testing diodes. 5 mm Allen wrench. Long, very narrow probes for multimeter, or equivalent. For rear sensors, a 10 mm socket, 8 mm socket, flat-head screwdriver, and needle-nose pliers might be required to remove trim. Difficulty: Easy Diagnosis: A BMW service computer can isolate the source of the problem; standard OBDII code readers cannot pull the requisite information. The Peake Research code reader seems to be capable of reporting whether or not a problem exists, but there do not appear to be any codes that reveal the location of the faulty sensor. If a wheel speed sensor is suspected, and no computer is available, the identification process is one of trial and error. Jack up you car and support appropriately. Access to the sensor is considerably easier with the wheel removed, so pick a corner and remove the wheel. It is worth noting that certain failure modes are associated with particular corners of the car. If the speedometer and odometer do not work, the driver's side rear sensor is probably bad. If the speedometer works but the cruise control does not, then the passenger side rear senor is probably bad. Locate the sensor (mounted on the wheel carrier near the hub) and trace its wire back to a blue connector. The connector might be housed in a black plastic box. Open the hinged box if it is present. There might be a second connector next to the blue speed sensor connector; that's for the brake pad wear sensor. Pull the blue speed sensor connector out of the box and disconnect the two sides. Deep inside the sensor side of the connector, there are two metal prongs. Now comes the tricky part. Turn the mutimeter on and to its diode testing setting (it looks like an arrow with a line in front of it). Connect one probe to one of the prongs, and the other probe to the other prong. The meter should read ~1.4-1.8 V or indicate an "open" condition (e.g., "OL"). Reverse the probes. Once again, the meter should indicate either an open condition or a 1.4-1.8 V drop, but the result should be whichever one you didn't see the first time. If you see any other result, such as 600 mV in each direction or 0.0 V in either direction, you've probably found the bad sensor; congratulations! Note that a 0.0 V drop is possibly indicative of a poor test setup; verify that you are not shorting the multimeter probes. If the sensor tests out okay, try again at a different wheel. Of course, it's always possible that one of your speed sensors has failed in a way that wouldn't present itself in this test. In the worst case, you'd have to go to the dealer anyway for the diagnosis. You might want to try another wheel even if you think you found the bad sensor in order to confirm that your technique is good. It's sometimes a bit tricky to get a good connection to those prongs. If you think you found two bad sensors, you probably messed up. Be sure to reconnect all of the sensors that you believe are good. Once you have identified the faulty sensor, obtain a replacement BMW part. One sensor on my 540i was $120; I've read reports of them retailing for as little as $70. Other possible causes: Reports indicate that the cause of the sensor failure might be a frayed wheel-speed sensor wire in the wheel well; inspect the entire visible run of the cable carefully to confirm the lack of frayed or pinched wires. If frayed wires are found, attempt repair using common wire-repair techniques. Other reports indicate that a bad ABS controller might cause similar symptoms. Replacement: With the wheel off at the corner with the broken sensor, and the sensor cable disconnected, unsnap the sensor wire from the two mount points on the steering knuckle. Follow the cable to the point where it ends at the sensor. The sensor is attached to the car with one or two small bolts. A 5mm Allen wrench is required to remove the bolts. You might have to do this blind, but it's not that hard. After the bolts are removed, gently pull the sensor straight out of its hole. Put the new sensor where the old one was, and reverse the removal process. There were two bolts holding my old front sensor, but the new front sensor included only one mounting hole. Due to the sensor construction, I don't believe it is a problem to use only one bolt. Be sure to hook the new sensor back to the other connector, and don't forget to snap the cable into the cable brackets. Commentary: I have had three speed sensors fail on my 1999 540i. The first time, a front sensor failed. The DSC, ABS, and brake warning lights were be off when the car was first started but would turn on after driving a couple hundred feet. A year later, a rear sensor failed. The same three lights shone at startup and never reset. The Peake reader indicated code 0F 78. A few months after that, I had another rear sensor fail. I was able to use the above procedure all three times to successfully locate the failed sensor. --- Jeff
I've had a look today, as on saturday the bloody thing was working fine, so the diagnostic software my mate has was showing no fault, no codes stored. I've checked them with a multimeter, and they are rears both 1.622, offside front 1.611, but the nearside front is 2.022, so that one is looking dodgy, and would explain why sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. The only thing that doesn't tie in with the chaps post, is if I've found the dodgy one, then on my 2000 UK spec car, it's the front nearside that controls the speedometer, odometer, etc etc. I'll keep you posted, as once I've sorted this, we'll be able to put it in the "how to do" section .............. , as I'm not about to be beaten by a poxy 2 wire inductive sensor. Once I've replaced one, cured the problem etc, I'll cut the plug of the faulty one and make a small battery powered test rig that can check them, and then post the details on here. These aren't magic, they are only 2 wire inductive sensors !
|
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Dergside
Really Senior Member II Joined: 16-May-2004 Location: Mid West, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 4000 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nigel, a google would confirm but to my knowledge, the NSR is the sensor used for the speedo reading, etc.
|
|
Now: BMW 523i SE '00, 318i SE - e91 '07, 325i Coupe '93.
Prev: e46 328i SE Touring, 330Ci, 318Ci. e39 523i SE. e36 325i Coupe *2, 323i SE, 316iSE. e30 325iSE 2dr, 320i Conv, 320i 2dr, 316i. |
|
Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ah, welcome to world of the E39 and faulty wheel sensors. Sounds like you are well on your way to diagnosing which one it is. If it is a front one that is faulty then another symptom will be rough autobox gear shifts as the front wheel sensors are used to control the shift points of the autobox. |
|
Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
OK lads ..... an update So far it's not good news, both the diode check, and my scope says the sensors are well (one is showing slightly over on the silicon junction check, but its pulse train output on the scope is perfect). My local main dealer confirms that the nearside rear does indeed control the functions I'm having trouble with, having been for a drive with a loaned diagnostic box ( to get it to fail), the diagnostic box says "rear near side abs sensor circuit faliure". I've obtained a sensor, a genuine BMW one, fitted it, 2.6 miles later, same problem (the problem is intermittent, like all good problems) ! I've spoken to the dealer I bought the car from today (they are a few miles away from me, just south of Bristol), so if it was a sensor it would've just been easier to do it than bother them. They are going to ring me back tomorrow. I'm going to do some internet research tonight, I don't yet have the bently manuals for the E39, and I cannot find the effing modules, lol, the krauty gits have moved them from where they were in the E34 ! Edited by Nigel |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Uh oh : http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=700242 I've repaired a few ovlov ones for people, but from this thread the beemer one looks ........ well ........ sh*te ! |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
And ....... pictures |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So how does a soldered joint break? Drys out and a shock from a pothole breaks it off? I take it Nigel you are thinking that it is a knackered ABS unit rather than a wheel sensor? Have you checked the wiring on the car side of the ABS wheel sensor plug/socket? It is not unheard of for a ABS wheel sensor to show up as failed on a diagnostic check when it is actually a wiring fault, the insulation chaffs on something creating a short throwing on your warning lights. Can be a pain in the sit down bits to find but may be easier and less scary than looking at the inside of your ABS unit! |
|
Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Andrew Whilst you are correct in what you say regarding the wiring loom, that kind of issue, on a 10 year old car with full bmwsh is very very unlikely, that kind of issue will show itself quite quickly if a "clip" is missed during build, allowing the loom to rub on something, it can also be an issue if somebody has been playing with a cars loom, fitting audio crap, lights, whatever, or if the car has been involved in a serious bump etc. None of the above applies to this car. This issue regarding the faliure of electronic circuits in cars (and many other things to be honest) is a mixture of EU regs (I'll explain in a moment), very complicated circuitry, and extremes of temperature etc in a cars engine bay. The abs unit has been an issue on Volvo V70 T5's for example, but not in most cases on the other V70's, and this is supposedly down to the abs mounting position versus the exhaust manifold ( I've actually repaired three of these for mates). The EU regs bit dates from either 1995 or 2005, I can't remember which, and concerns the use of lead in solder, they've made everyone (with a few exceptions) go lead free, due to the amount of polution caused by throwing away electrical/electronic items into landfill, and the lead getting into the soil (it must be an issue, but it bemuses me, as that's where it came from .... the ground, so we're only putting it back). The exceptions I'm aware of are the aircraft and medical industries, because leaded solder has a very long history,we can predict how it will react, lead free solder doesn't have a history. There are issues regarding components too, a component built using lead free technology doesn't like being soldered with leaded solder and vice versa, so repairing older circuits with new components can be an issue (reliability wise) Leaded solder used to be on red reels, and unleaded on green reels, but I have noticed that the buggars are palcing lead free on red reels now, I can still buy leaded solder (for how long we're not sure), but from non trade outlets, you should only be able to get lead free now. So, my knowledge of the solder issue, and the Volvo issue, combined with the fact the problem isn't a sensor, and given there is so much information on the internet from the states about this (where they have more extremes of temperature than we do), is what is leading me to suspect the abs module. If I'm wrong, I'll post it. |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Some more info for you lads ...... mines the 265 223 001 http://www.ecutesting.com/bmw_5_series__e39__abs_pump_mo.htm l I'll get a quote, and let you know how much |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
£150.00, 2 - 3 working days for a repair, no exchange units in stock |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Okay dokey I'm supposedly going touring the highlands of scotty land ...... again, next week, so I don't have time to do the repair route So, I'm off here tomorrow : http://www.unitedautoparts.co.uk/ £339.00 for a brand new unit. People are expressing concern (one woman in particular), regarding me wandering around the unit with a soldering iron, and then driving her across the applecross mountain road etc. I'll let you know how I get on. |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I agree but wouldn't an older car be mibbie more susceptable to wiring being chaffed as it has had 10 years worth of road bumps. All I'm saying is don't discount it as you may be going down a road of forking out more hard earned than you need to! Have a read of this which happened to an E39 M5 after a few years worth of road bumps |
|
Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You are correct Andrew. I have looked at as much of the loom as I can (I did this last sunday) without stripping the car. I could still be wrong. It could be part of the loom I cannot see, it could be the instrument cluster, or its loom. or even the main cpu, or its loom. The brains I'm talking to/working with, using the diagnostic software (genuine BMW) and two different fault code readers, one plugs in under the bonnet, one plugs in just above the drivers right knee, all say "nearside rear wheel sensor circuit". The modulators do also seem to fail quite often ....... try and locate a 2nd hand one (not that you'd want a 2nd hand one).......try and locate someone with an exchange unit sitting on the shelf ! Even the chap at fab said "no chance mate, a working one of those is as rare as hens teeth here" Assuming it does turn out to be the fault, I'm talking to BMW techie people as to why it fails on the 5 series "very often" and on the 7 series "very rarely", when it is in fact exactly the same unit. In my mind, assuming it is the fault, it can only be its location, like on the Volvo T5's. We have one small complication too, the ASC version 0 265 223 001, is what's fitted to my car, along with the ASC button on the dash, all the BMW systems, whether searched by vin number or redg number say 0 265 223 002, which is the DSC version. |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Keep going Nigel, you'll get there. It's frustrating when a simple fault with part of an electronic system is a complete unit at £x00's of pounds when it only needs a new bit of electronic circuitry at a few pence or a couple of quid at most. Let us know how you get on. |
|
Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I got the new one today. Bad news is it needs coding to the car, and I'm very sorry to have to report, my local dealer refuse to code it ........ because I didn't buy it from them (they wanted £890.00 for the unit, £108.00 to code it, and £106.00 to fit it).
I bought it from a bosch dealer for £339.00, fitted it in under 15 minutes, from start to finish, including getting my tools out and putting them away, but I can't code it. None of my mates can code it, but ..... the bosch dealer who sold it to me has arranged for someone to do it tomorrw for £41.00 The good news is, instantly the speedo works, and the abs fault light is out, I am just left with the orange "take me to a dealer" triangle lit on the display ..... I assume because it isn't coded. It is very very sad news regarding my local dealer, they used to be Robert Sterns, and I've had a fantastic relationship with them for the last ten years, back in the days of the bmwcc gb (spit), they even gave us a tech e-mail helpline,there was the E60 M5 lauch day outing we had there, and they were despatching parts at a good discount to the Irish lads and anyone else that wanted them. I've never been able to afford a car from them, but I've bought all my service items from them, and a lot of other parts for the last ten years. They were taken over by Rybrook late last year, and instantly things went downhill, I was no longer able to just ring up and order bits , paying for them when I collected them, getting parts now involved two trips, one to order and pay, one to collect (the parts lads were as bothered by this as I was, but it was the new "regime") After todays experience, I will write a letter to the dealer principle, but I fear apart from dropping a tin of biscuits in to the parts lads, for all their help over the years, that'll be my last visit, it would appear they've gone the same way as the car club ! |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
Nigel
Moderator Group Joined: 09-November-2002 Status: Offline Points: 6941 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Righty ho I've been and had it coded, all seems ok. I'll write this up properly, with what I've learnt, all the contacts etc, and pop it in the how to do section |
|
Best Wishes
Nigel |
|
540 V8
Bavarian-Board Contributor Lick my badge Joined: 07-December-2005 Location: Running the asylum Status: Offline Points: 2280 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Was reading that with great interest. It can be so annoying how electrical gremlins can be such a pain.
Being honest though, if a customer bought something like that and came to my place to have it fitted, chances are we'd refuse or at least get them to sign a disclaimer saying we cannot be responsible for any failure due to the fitment of the part so I can sort of see where they are coming from but like you said, if you have a good relationship I don't see why they'd be obstuctive like that, it's a shame. At least its sorted now though. Mike |
|
Current:E34 540i Touring 6 speed manual(Mpower bodykit & suspension)& Chrysler Voyager 3.3 V6 auto Previous:E34 530iSE AC Schnitzer suspension. E28 525e auto-Standard |
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |