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villman540 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22-May-2010 at 00:01

Hi to all. I own an e34 540i auto which I have had for five months. cannot describe how much I love the car (this is my first bmw), but unfortunately I have had many sleepless nights worrying about this car since I bought it.

I am far from being an expert mechanic, but since becoming the owner of this beautiful beast I have spent most of my nights trying to learn what I can about this car, but have only tonight decided to register on this forum as I am blown away by the level of knowledge that appears to exist on this site.

My problems are thus:

Recently fitted a replacement (used) radiator as the old one had slight leak which all of a sudden became much worse. The car started to overheat but I turned off the engine straight away and collected several bottles of water from a nearby pub which got me the remaining 5 miles home with temp guage remaining in centre.

Fitted new rad, and used car for remainder of day with  no probs.

Next morning, car wouldnt start straight away as normal, but took three or four attempts to start.  When I removed the cap to check the coolant level there was a lot of hissing and apparent woosh of pressure, even thought he car was not yet even warm.

left the car overnight(tossed and turned)  the next morning would not start until several attempts had been made(once again), and again coolant seems to be under a lot of pressure. Slight smell of petrol coming from header tank.

I am terrified that this is a head gasket issue, but with limited mechanical knowledge I am unsure - could it be something else like a vacuum leak?

nb. Oil appears normal (ie, not milky or chocolatey), no apparent white smoke coming from exhaust, although there apppears to be more water than normal dripping from exhaust pipe. Engine otherwise runs and  sounds as sweet as ever, other than more vibration at idle than I was previously used to which you can feel through the driver s seat.

Any help would be much apppreciated. I love this car to bits, and hope and prey that its saveable without a huge bill, as ironically, Ive recently been forced to close my antiques business which means Im no longer in the financial position I once was.

Apologies for the long winded explanation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2010 at 08:42

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I think, (I am no expert on the E34 nor on the cooling system on V8s) you have simply got an air lock in your cooling system.

As you had to hastily refil it from the pub (are you sure it wasn't beer and the car just has a hangover) you probably just managed to get air in the cooling system.  These systems need to be filled very slowly and bled to get the air out, the 6 pot E39 is a real pig for air locks but with patience it can be done.

There should be little plastic bleed screws mounted on top of the radiator, expansion tank, thermostat housing etc which can be un done and air can be bled out.  Failing that remove the hoses at one end and pour coolant into the hoses then couple them back up.

Although I'm struggling to see how an air lock would prevent the car from starting unless the coolant level is too low for the coolant sensor(i.e. the air lock is in the position of the coolant sensor) to pick up the temp of the water so the ECU then has to guess what temperature the engine is at which will make starting the engine difficult.

Have you got any warning lights on the dash? 

It doesn't sound like to me that you have got a blown cylinder head gasket(s).

Keep us posted on how you get on and hopefull someone with better knowledge of the E34 V8 cooling system will be along.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Fenwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2010 at 08:47
Smell of petrol from the header tank and pressure in the cooling system.

My guess would be a head gasket failure. No other way to get fuel into the coolant. Sorry.

Howver to be sure a compression test will tell you more.




Edited by Peter Fenwick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote villman540 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2010 at 12:45

Thanks for replies.  Re bleeding the system, couldnt seem to find any bleed screws anywhere but when browsing the web noticed that this system is supposed to be self bleeding? Dont know if this is true or not, but therefore I havent bled the system.

With regards to smell of petrol from header tank, I could be wrong but it appears to be coming from there although I can still smell it when cap is on so perhaps its coming from engine? cant be sure.

Is a compression test something I could do myself? , or would I need to use a specialist garage. As said money for me tight at the moment so Im not afraid to get my hands dirty and Im eager to learn, but this car is far more complex than the vw polo I owned previous to this car, and indeed more so than the porsche 924s which I have done some work to myself successfully.

One of my friends has been telling me im paranoid to think head gasket, but thats whats been going through my mind (a lot!)

Just would seem so unfair as car runs so well otherwise and oil is perfectly normal, and car is not loosing any coolant.

I really appreciate everyones input, thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote villman540 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2010 at 15:04
Just to update - am going to try Andrew Rollands advice and attempt to bleed system somehow later today - will post how I get on, guess I dont have a lot to lose by trying. Have kids party to attend to now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sporty1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2010 at 17:55
Get yourself one of these and test the coolant, if combustion gases are present then get it probably is h/gasket(s) at least. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 540 V8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2010 at 20:39
As Sporty said, get some 'sniff test' stuff which will determine if there are exhaust fumes dissolved in the coolant and at least that may put your mind at rest (or not!)
It's quite rare for these to suffer with head gasket problems as the engines are bomb proof. Any nikasil issues would have manifested themselves ages ago if this was an issue.
As Andrew suggested, most BMW engines are a pig to bleed.  From memory I think there is a bleed screw on the housing that the top hose connects to but failing that, as Andrew said, take the top hose off and fill it that way.

My thought is that you may have 2 issues. I fail to see how a problem with the coolant would prevent the engine from starting. This could be down to crank sensor playing up, fuel starvation, ignition issues but most of that will probably show up on a diagnostic machine. Perhaps you could run it to a local garage and just ask them to do a quick diagnostic test which shouldn't set you back anymore than £30 - £40.

If you need any more help with your 540, there's a few of us with one so just give a little whistle! We all know what you mean when you say you cannot describe how much you love the car, it does get you like that for sure!
Hopefully you'll get it all sorted.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2010 at 22:40

Originally posted by 540 V8 540 V8 wrote:

We all know what you mean when you say you cannot describe how much you love the car, it does get you like that for sure!

Oh yeah, the car's the baby.  Got it bad.second to the wife...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote villman540 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2010 at 00:12

Ok, thanks once again for everybodys input so far. Didnt have chance to touch the car today as I ran out of time (wasnt allowed out to play - lol). Will now attempt tomorrow to remove top hose and top up coolant system in the hope that this may solve the coolant pressure issue.  Also thanks to Sporty for link to block testing kit, which will be my next step after attempting to deal with possible air lock, price seems pretty reasonable too.

With regards to the starting issue, and the suggestion from mike of getting diagnostics done at a local garage, would it have to be a Bmw specialist, or would most competent garages have the equipment available to do this, as this sounds like a good idea - although presumably if it turms out that I do have a head gasket breach this might explain the starting problems anyway, but of course I am hoping not and am feeling a little more upbeat after talking to you all on this forum.

I really hope I can get this sorted and will do my best to follow all of the advice. My partner is sick of hearing about this car as I seem to be talking about it more and more as time goes on. I think the problem is that every time I have a problem with this car it carries an emotional attachment that didnt exist with my previous cars, so much so that it can tend to distract me from concentrating on other things in life, and even result in lack of sleep in my case. Its as if some kind of disease came inherently with the car which is gradually taking me over! lol.

Clean, polish and wax it every week, and to be honest would happily do it every day if the need facilitated it, or I had an excuse to. Do hope its days arent numbered yet. Have yet to see a more elegant and timeless design than the e34, but guess thats just a matter of opinion.     Cheers!!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 540 V8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2010 at 21:22
Originally posted by Andrew Rolland Andrew Rolland wrote:

Originally posted by 540 V8 540 V8 wrote:

We all know what you mean when you say you cannot describe how much you love the car, it does get you like that for sure!

Oh yeah, the car's the baby.  Got it bad.second to the wife...



Does your wife tell you that she thinks you are married to your car because mine does!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 540 V8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2010 at 21:27
Originally posted by villman540 villman540 wrote:

My partner is sick of hearing about this car as I seem to be talking about it more and more as time goes on. I think the problem is that every time I have a problem with this car it carries an emotional attachment that didnt exist with my previous cars, so much so that it can tend to distract me from concentrating on other things in life, and even result in lack of sleep in my case. Its as if some kind of disease came inherently with the car which is gradually taking me over! lol.

 



Ditto the above!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2010 at 08:26

You should be o.k. going to the local garage for a diagnostic check on a car of that age.  The newer the car the more problems the smaller local garages appear to have with interogating the diagnostics

Originally posted by villman540 villman540 wrote:

I think the problem is that every time I have a problem with this car it carries an emotional attachment that didnt exist with my previous cars, so much so that it can tend to distract me from concentrating on other things in life, and even result in lack of sleep in my case. Its as if some kind of disease came inherently with the car which is gradually taking me over! lol.

Clean, polish and wax it every week, and to be honest would happily do it every day if the need facilitated it, or I had an excuse to.

You are sooo right, except I have formed an emotional attachment with every car I have owned.  I shed a tear or two when I traded in my old Senator for my E39, I shed even more when I was deprived of my first E60.  Cars are not just lumps of metal, oil and rubber.  It's just a pitty women will never understand that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jetsetwilly2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2010 at 14:14
iirc the E34 is self-bleeding - certainly I've changed my coolant several times and never had any problems.

A smell of fuel in the header tank is worrying - do a sniff test, a compression test or take it to an indy.  It's OBDI, which most garages should read - whether they can interpret it is another story tho, so I'd look for an indy.  Where are you?  Someone will probably know one nearby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote villman540 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2010 at 15:34

Hello again everybody. Tried removing top hose and filling that way as suggested.  Unfortunately coolant is under even more pressure now, and cap blew off into the air with the car having been running less than a minute, like a big fountain. Also checked oil filler cap again(which seemed ok when I checked yesterday), and timing chain is coated in a reasonable amount of milky emulsified scum. It certainly doesnt look good for me does it. 

The saddest thing is that it still sounds so sweet when it does start up, which just rubs it in all the more.

Spoke to a local garage today as well, and guy tells me that he feels certain that its definitely a blown head gasket/damaged cylinder head, and that it would be beyond economical repair in his opinion -he reckons it would be easier to lift the whole engine and replace it.

Dont think I will be able to afford these sort of bills now or in the forseeable future (because my business of 8 years has recently gone down), and therefore might be forced to sell it for somebody else to repair, although guess it will probably be more likely broken for spares.

So so so so so sad....

May I thanks everybody once again for their kind efforts to assist me. I will keep a check on the forum in case anybody has any other ideas, but think I would need nothing short of a miracle to help me here. Not feeling good at all right now...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jetsetwilly2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2010 at 16:50
Oh dear, sorry to hear that villman!  I'm afraid there's not much doubt about the diagnosis.  That's really bad luck - the V8s are generally pretty solid.  

I wonder is it worth paying for a couple of hours labour to get the head off and see how bad it is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote villman540 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2010 at 02:40

Well, after gradually calming down, have decided not to give up just yet. There may still be hope..  or I could just be building myself up for yet another fall...

Could I take the head off myself? Have only ever really changed/removed things like water pumps, alternators,rads, and most other servicable parts, so if its not tremendously difficult would consider doing it myself.

Part of me thinks Im being ridiculous by even suggesting this, but the other half of me is thinking that if I dont tackle jobs like this then Ill never learn....

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2010 at 08:27

Bummer, from your earlier discussion I thought you might have been lucky but guess not.

Would changing the CHG be that big a job on that engine?  Yes it is a physically big job as there is two of everything but there is no complicated variable valve gubbins to mess around with just simple gears and chains.

I would give it a go.  You have nothing to loose.

Does the Haynes book of parodies for the E34 cover the V8 engine?  I know the aforementioned book of tales for the E39 does not cover the V8.

I dare say if you searched on t'interweb you would find all the torque settings and a procedure for doing this on the engine.

Good luck and stay on here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote villman540 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2010 at 22:27

Ok thanks for the reassurance Andrew , will begin searching for info as you have suggested.

 If anybody else  can shed any light on where to find torque settings/procedure info for e34 540i (m60) then that would be great, otherwise I'll post again when I have made any more progress.

Will probably have compression test done first anyway.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andrew Rolland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 10:19

Originally posted by villman540 villman540 wrote:

If anybody else  can shed any light on where to find torque settings/procedure info for e34 540i (m60) then that would be great,

New I'd seen them somewhere.

http://www.bavarian-board.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=46656&am p;PN=1

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jetsetwilly2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2010 at 10:37
Nice page andrew (and shogun)!

I've always found bentley's manual to be the one for the E34, esp the V8 - get it eg here.  Not cheap but well worth it.  PM'd you with another good source of info...


Edited by jetsetwilly2000
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