RS4 beats M3, Autocar 18 July |
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thepits
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Funny how some people's minds work, isn't it? |
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635CSi
Really Senior Member II Joined: 01-March-2007 Status: Offline Points: 683 |
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Well personally I think why the M3 has been "diluted" is because of all the safety requirements needed nowadays in a modern car. The E30 was produced at a time when safety wasn't really compulsory if you wanted your car to be competitive. Cars just keep getting fatter and fatter as a result of all the extra gadgetry and safety technology being packed in as a result. That's why Peugeot havn't been able to make a genuine successor to the 205 GTI. Yes, I would agree that Audi have missed the mark somewhat. Firstly they got the engine lineup wrong, there is a huge gap in the range from the 1.8T which we will be getting and the 2.7 TDi. They have also poorly packaged the car, there is a very small amount of room in the rear for anyone but children, even though the car is somewhat longer and wider than the E92. Lastly they've really messed up on the ride and handling, from what I've read the car isn't really entertaining to drive and the ride quality is not up to scratch either. So what they've got is a bigger, less entertaining, less fun to drive and less practical car than the E92. Edited by 635CSi |
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larzyh
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I can't quite see where all this "diluting" of the M3 is taking place; it is still a very high performance version of the 3series. The dilution happened at the E30 to E36 (from homologation special to high performance coupe/saloon) but since then it seems to have evolved nicely. I would imagine that BMW is under considerable pressure to produce a very good car when developing each new generation of M3; they have to be exceptional cars and it seems to me that they have yet again succeeded. I haven't read the Autocar test but in all other tests I've seen the reviewers seem suitably impressed. I also think that it is overly cynical to suggest that the M3 is a marketing exercise. BMW make cars and as such market cars but the M3 (and all the other M-division cars) are very important elements in maintaining BMW's status as driver orientated cars. It is important for the marketing of BMW as a brand but they are extremely well conceived cars nonetheless. I think Audi missed the mark with the A5; coupe's should have some excitement about them. The A5 is a large two door saloon with soft lines and that peculiarly "dopey" front that all the current Audi's wear. Long live the M3. |
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Larzyh.
Previously or currently, in the family: '77 E21 320, '78 E21 320, '79 E21 320, '87 E28 520i, '88 E30 325iC, '95 E34 525i, '98 E39 528i, '98 Z3 2.5, '98 E38 740iL, '95 E36 Compact, '99 E36 318iT, '02 E46 318iT, '96 E34 525tdsT, '98 E38 740iL... |
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635CSi
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Never thought of that actually, clever plan if it's actually true. |
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Sporty1
Really Senior Member II Joined: 18-October-2006 Location: Hertfordshire, United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2297 |
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Disagree, the BMW marketing machine is pulling another master stroke..... diluting the M3 to appeal to a bigger market and then bringing out a less is more, that includes more £, M3 i.e. a CSL/CS model for those that want a more driver orientated model. Think they've been watching the Stuttgart boy's very closely over the decade or so, or have they always been doing that with the M3? E30 M3 SE retailed at £35000 back in 1990 a 911 was on £10k ish more, and a SE was £8k ish more than a regualr M3....... History repeating itself?..... well apart from actually going racing with them.
Edited by Sporty1 |
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635CSi
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It's availible as both saloon and avant (estate). |
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635CSi
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The RS4 doesn't have much time left, they've stopped taking orders for them afaik because the new RS5 and RS6 aren't too far off. For some reason Audi used to have a policy where they won't have any more than 1 'RS' version at a time, there are going to be 2 'RS' models now with the launch of the RS6 only a year away. I think it's pretty good going that the RS4 has won the battle against the M3 considering it is based on a much older and less dynamic car, the A4 was never a keen 'driver's car' whereas the 3 Series has always been the total opposite.
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larzyh
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flyingalexf68 - Spot-on for Irish market; they do sound fantastic and I think you're probably right that a lot of Audi's (not just RS's) are sold on the basis of "not being BMW's". My view is undoubtedly coloured by my recent return from continental Europe where (performance)estates are much more popular than here. I would guess that the majority of the many RS 4/6 I saw in Italy and Switzerland were indeed estates and there are certainly more RS's than M's. I nevertheless saw several new M5 Tourings. I accept the point that performance estates would sell in very small numbers in Ireland... Edit: Is the V10 RS 6 even available as anything but estate? I have only seen them as estates (usually black!). Edited by larzyh |
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Larzyh.
Previously or currently, in the family: '77 E21 320, '78 E21 320, '79 E21 320, '87 E28 520i, '88 E30 325iC, '95 E34 525i, '98 E39 528i, '98 Z3 2.5, '98 E38 740iL, '95 E36 Compact, '99 E36 318iT, '02 E46 318iT, '96 E34 525tdsT, '98 E38 740iL... |
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flyingalexf68
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I'd dissagree somewhat. What sells the Audi is the noise. And the fact that its
not a BMW. I've yet to see an RS4 Avant. Seen loads of saloons. I'd say Audi will sell plenty RS5 coupes when they go on sale. I don't think BMW will sell many saloon or estate M3's. But I have been wrong in the past though. Once. EDIT: Audi have had far superior interiors compared to BMW or Merc for years. And journalists always go on about "steering feel" and other bull but it won't put a single buyer off buying one. Most people will just think the steering is lovely and light and it was easy to park when they finish their test drive. Edited by flyingalexf68 |
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1995 e36 3.0 M3 Coupe, Daytona Violet, AP Racing BBK, CCFL Angel Eyes, M3 Spoiler, M-Tec 3 Steering Wheel.
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larzyh
Really Senior Member II Joined: 25-February-2007 Location: Limerick Status: Offline Points: 633 |
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While I wouldn't advocate (nor suspect) complacency on BMW's part, I am sure the accountants at BMW are not desperately unhappy with current performance in the market. If you're as successful as BMW there's little need to "cop on". The M3 always was, and still is (in my opinion), a purer performance car than the RS4. What "sells" the Audi to me is it's availability as an estate (and I'm sure many others, the four doors). I hope to see a Touring version of the current M3. I'd be happy for someone else to drive it for 3-4 years before buying! |
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Larzyh.
Previously or currently, in the family: '77 E21 320, '78 E21 320, '79 E21 320, '87 E28 520i, '88 E30 325iC, '95 E34 525i, '98 E39 528i, '98 Z3 2.5, '98 E38 740iL, '95 E36 Compact, '99 E36 318iT, '02 E46 318iT, '96 E34 525tdsT, '98 E38 740iL... |
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635CSi
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What do people think of that?? I think BMW missed a great opportunity with the E92 M3. Apparently what they said the steering is rather vague, which is very surprising, you'd think the Audi would be the car criticised of that offence!
Speaking of the RS4 I was actually in one today, a sexy sexy car! I found it to be faultless, I sat in the driver's seat and the position was spot on. The sports seats hugged you in all the right places, the steering wheel was the right size, everything was perfect imo! I hate to say it but BMW need to cop on, they aren't aware of how fast Audi have caught up... Edited by 635CSi |
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