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uoi1772 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16-April-2007 at 00:14
Anybody shed any light what could cause a power lag between 1-3x1000rpm? Thing is, the power really kicks in at 3x1000 rpm and the car flies. I've changed the Air Filter and the Mass Air Flow Meter which has helped slightly. The car only has 60k on it. Just doesn't seem right! Any suggestions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denishogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-April-2007 at 07:43
Could be the EGR valve... they can go - usually leading to flat spots in the power delivery. Not 100% certain, but if it is the EGR valve, it should show up during a diagnostic check - your local mechanic should be able to plug it in for you (or if you are looking for a specialist, you could try Border Motor Works outside Strabane).

It could also be one of those little hoses going to/from the turbo - they can crack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmwcare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-April-2007 at 09:47
Originally posted by uoi1772 uoi1772 wrote:

Anybody shed any light what could cause a power lag between 1-3x1000rpm? Thing is, the power really kicks in at 3x1000 rpm and the car flies. I've changed the Air Filter and the Mass Air Flow Meter which has helped slightly. The car only has 60k on it. Just doesn't seem right! Any suggestions?


What car is this? Also, Manual or Auto?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kin Mak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-April-2007 at 13:39
Turbo lag?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyingalexf68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-April-2007 at 20:15
Originally posted by Kin Mak Kin Mak wrote:

Turbo lag?


It's not an Impreza Kin. Turbos on diesels kick in around 1500rpm and are
at full boost (peak torque) at around 1800.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uoi1772 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-April-2007 at 23:15

Noticed a slight leak on the ground at home and in the usual place where I park in work, which makes me think, it could be cracked turbo hose you suggested, but I will have the diagnostics checked for that EGR valve you also pointed out that could be at fault.  

The cars an '02 525d with manual gearbox.

Will come back with any findings, cheers!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kin Mak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-April-2007 at 23:30

Originally posted by flyingalexf68 flyingalexf68 wrote:

Originally posted by Kin Mak Kin Mak wrote:

Turbo lag?


It's not an Impreza Kin. Turbos on diesels kick in around 1500rpm and are
at full boost (peak torque) at around 1800.

Whatever mate, I don't drive tractors.

p.s. No offence... really.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bmwcare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 04:49
Originally posted by uoi1772 uoi1772 wrote:

Noticed a slight leak on the ground at home and in the usual place where I park in work, which makes me think, it could be cracked turbo hose you suggested, but I will have the diagnostics checked for that EGR valve you also pointed out that could be at fault.  

The cars an '02 525d with manual gearbox.

Will come back with any findings, cheers!



EGR is a possibility.
There is a full test procedure that can be carried out during a diagnostic session. Either a dealer with GT1 or Independent with Autologic will have this facility. Other aftermarket tools are generally crap at diagnosing this.

There is also a flash update for that DDE - get your tech to check the programming slots and see if it has been updated. That may cure your problem - but it won't mask a fault.

HTH,
Eddie.

PS: Kin, the best putdown I've found for diesels is (as quoted from a builder that had a few Rollers in his time - he was asked by an eejit was it diesel), "look, Diesel is for mixers..."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 09:16

Interesting post.... I've a manual 525TDS and there's nothing below 2,300rpm when the turbo spools up suddenly and spits you down the road - for another 1,500 rpm anyway! 

The car is pretty limp below that, to a point where it requires 1,800rpm and clutch slip to take off on an incline with any haste & to ensure it doesn't stall.

Car is smooth out throughout rev range, produces great economy (46mpg on long journeys measured from tank) etc and nothing from the running suggests there's anything wrong - except for above obviously.

Chatting to previous owner, he said that when he had lower end work done, there was a temp flywheel in, and garage adjusted fueling down via software and it ran as described. New flywheel went in, garage reset most stuff but never adjusted fueling up and owner just left it as it was until I bought it 50k later.

How feasible is this to do?? I didn't think fueling was that adjustable... or that doing so could keep the car runing smooth, refined, no spikes or flat spots etc.. just relatively dead until the turbo kicks in.

And before any smart lag comments Kin, it ain't lag!



Edited by T.J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denishogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 10:48
@uoi1772: a cheap dirty way of finding out if it is the EGR valve is to block off the exhaust side of it completely using a little metal plate - then take it for a drive - you should notice the difference. It's a bit of a hack job and don't recommend it.

@TJ: The turbo on my yoke starts to spool up round 2200-2300 - same as yours. But it has a decent amount of torque - it doesn't need to be revved to get away unless you are on a reasonably steep incline. Although it's not quite fit for any sort of a Hill at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 11:28

Mine was the same as ye describe lads, the chipping did a lot for it but before hand there was just nothing at any rev range (with all of my 115bhp!)

Still the economy isnt missed and im on the look out for another one again.

This 525d is it any relation to the older 525tds? OR is a 5 cyl version of the 530d? Ive never actually seen one up close or under the bonnet..

P.s. how are you getting on with it Denis?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denishogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 12:00
It's a six pot Ben (afaik). I don't think BMW have ever done a five pot - but, as usual, I am open to correction on this. It's just a newer motor altogether.

My yoke is still sick - waiting for the parts to arrive. Should be able to get stuck into it early next week. Fingers crossed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 12:01
@ Denis - yeah mine seems to be lacking alot of torque below the turbo point. a 2.5 litre NA diesel should pull better.

Edited by T.J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 12:14

@ T.J, that is magnified even when it is chipped, i recall mine especially in 1st pulling away from a junction, if you let clutch out fully at say 1100rpm and floor it it would pause for a second, climb to 2200 slowly then whoosh... to around 4k ish..

@ Denis, hmmm 6 cyl, possibly a scaled down 530d so. Did you manage to do something about that timing chain..

Sure if you want a hand let me know ill be around,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyingalexf68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 19:14
Something wrong there lads. It should be at full torque below 2300rpm. As I
said 1800-2000 is the norm for Turbo Diesels. The 530d will pull very
strongly from 1800rpm. You get pushed back into your seat. 2300 is far to
high for the power to come in. I'd normally be changing up a gear in my
Doblo van (1.9 JTD) at 2300-2500. And also now that I think, Pamela's
mums Range Rover has the 2.5 BMW engine from the 525tds. It has all its
power lower then 2300 as well. (not that it really has any power as it weighs
2.7 tonne empty)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben O Brien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 20:05

 

Well it does feel torquey below the power band, i.e you can start in 2nd and all that but the peak power or at least the start of the peak curve comes on just above 2k rpm and then you feel the boost.

The 530d would be a much more sophisticated animal!

Originally posted by flyingalexf68 flyingalexf68 wrote:

Pamela's
mums Range Rover has the 2.5 BMW engine from the 525tds. It has all its
power lower then 2300 as well. (not that it really has any power as it weighs
2.7 tonne empty)

I think you mean all the noise alex!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyingalexf68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 21:29
Actually thats exactly what I mean. Not to mention the vibrations. Nice pic
Ben. Looks like someone having a laugh. They've taped up the lights to
make it more aerodynamic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uoi1772 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-April-2007 at 22:49

The 530d aint more sophisticated than a 525d but it should definitely have more grunt than mine. These 2 motors have the same engine model code. Only difference is obviously capacity and the resultant output in power and torque 163bhp for mine and 184bhp for the 530d, these are '02 figures of course. The latest models are well up again on this.

There's a definite problem alright with the pick-up in mine between 1 and 3 rpm, for since i've had the car, it hasn't lagged like this before.

Someone mentioned earlier, a 530d pinning you to your seat when accelarating, this thing used to do the same before this lagging problem. 

Interesting though, when I booked the car in with local BMW dealer today, (who has a GT1 diagnostics tester) and explained the problem, they asked if I had the replacement Mass Air-Flow Meter programmed in when fitted. Not realising this needed to be done, they pointed out that they would do this first before running the diagnostics test.

Incidentally, BMW diesel badging was first td, then tds and now 'd'. The latest 2.5'd' has an output of 177bhp and the 3.0d 231bhp.

In hindsight TJ, my previous 2.5TDS never gave any trouble after 208k when I changed for this one, a real bulletproof motor!   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-April-2007 at 08:52
That's what I'm hoping uoi1772 - I bought mine with 178k up on it, and a colleague had it for the previous 3yrs and 100k. It did throw a conrod @ 131k which required a bottom end rebuild though .... still on original turbo, intercooler etc etc.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mick o c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-April-2007 at 20:09
Originally posted by uoi1772 uoi1772 wrote:

The 530d aint more sophisticated than a 525d but it should definitely have more grunt than mine. These 2 motors have the same engine model code. Only difference is obviously capacity and the resultant output in power and torque 163bhp for mine and 184bhp for the 530d, these are '02 figures of course. The latest models are well up again on this.

  

mine is 01 and its 194 bhp
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