E39 ASC and ABS Lights on |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Topic: E39 ASC and ABS Lights on Posted: 03-April-2006 at 03:42 |
Well my ASC and ABS lights now only come on when the engine starts and go off after a second or two as they should! Here is how I did it. Disconnected the battery. Jacked up and removed front offside wheel. Turned steering wheel to full left lock to get the best access and then I found it easiest to lie on my back with my head and shoulders under the hub. Wire brushed the two mounting bolts clean and then tried to get the 5 mm Allen key into the bolt heads, it refused and I had to clean out the bolt head recesses with a screw driver then gently tap the 5 mm Allen key into the bolt head to ensure a proper fit as I didn't want to chew the bolt heads. Both bolts removed easily without the need for WD40. The sensor actually broke up when un-screwing the bolts, there are two metal inserts bonded into the plastic sensor body which the bolts pass thru, both these inserts came away from the main body of the sensor. In other words there was no way the sensor that came out would go back in! Sensor was stuck in the hole and had to be pried lose then it just dropped out. Cleaned up the area around the hole and wire brushed the mounting bolts clean and greased them up when I put the new sensor back on. The most difficult thing was squeezing the rubber mounting bush on the cable into the support bracket bolted to the hub. Refit wheel and torqued up bolts and reconnected the battery. Lights stayed lit until I drove the car 50m. All clear, no faults, tranny shifting fine. Job done by myself for a total cost of under £100 inc diagnostic fee. Andrew PS This method of checking which wheel sensor is defective by measuring the resistance of the sensor is rubbish. Both the defective sensor that I took off and the new one had a resistance of 6 Ohms! So in other words I couldn't prove the diagnostic check! |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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523 iAN
Really Senior Member II Joined: 17-September-2005 Location: close to Loch Lomond Status: Offline Points: 1258 |
Posted: 01-April-2006 at 07:01 |
as far as i know they could communicate with all modules they have asked i take it back in so the can check another way?? something about plugging it in to something?? and spinning each wheel seperatlly and it give's a more acurate reading?? sorry if this sound's a bit "un accurate" but i'm not big with this side of car maintanace. |
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2003-530i SE
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autofix
Really Senior Member I Joined: 23-August-2003 Location: Kildare Status: Offline Points: 294 |
Posted: 01-April-2006 at 06:55 |
Hi Ian, Do you mean that they could communicate with the ABS but it showed that there were no faults or that they could not communicate at all? Did they try and communicate with any other modules? Any idea what scan tool they used? Alan
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523 iAN
Really Senior Member II Joined: 17-September-2005 Location: close to Loch Lomond Status: Offline Points: 1258 |
Posted: 01-April-2006 at 06:43 |
STRANGE!! just had the diagnostic check done on my car and nothing has show'n an error?? they then tried the machine in another BMW and it worked, showing the fault on that one (they knew what was wrong with it before hand) so tried it again in mine and ..."nothing" i'm lost
PS, the ABS fault light was on at the time (on the dash??) Edited by 523 iAN |
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2003-530i SE
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autofix
Really Senior Member I Joined: 23-August-2003 Location: Kildare Status: Offline Points: 294 |
Posted: 31-March-2006 at 13:43 |
Hi Andrew, best thing you can do is listen very carefully to everything your neighbour and that mechanic tells you and then believe the exact opposite Slamming on the brakes will make no difference.Once the MIL (malfunction indicator light) is on then the whole ABS system is shut down.A code for a wheel speed sensor will not cause a faulty module code. Your car has inductive sensors so will always measure open circuit. HTH Alan |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 31-March-2006 at 07:54 |
I used CH Bull and Sons in Bridge of Weir. They are not a BMW specialist, just a very good garage. They are a Diahatsu dealer. Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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523 iAN
Really Senior Member II Joined: 17-September-2005 Location: close to Loch Lomond Status: Offline Points: 1258 |
Posted: 31-March-2006 at 05:32 |
?? does anyone know if any other model use's the same part? i'm just of the phone to a local place and he can plug my car in for a check and he said he has a couple of BMW's for breaking but none are 5 series, but if the snsor's are any good i can have em for nothing , i'll go along for the check anyway and see how it fair's out? |
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2003-530i SE
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523 iAN
Really Senior Member II Joined: 17-September-2005 Location: close to Loch Lomond Status: Offline Points: 1258 |
Posted: 31-March-2006 at 04:48 |
interesting, ive just got the exact same prob, just last night i had both ABS & ASC light's come on, then go off again this morning but they both stayed on for 15 mile's worth of driving, just had a look in the handbook to see what it might be and thought "quick search" on the forum's may come up with something and "HEY PRESTO" i'm not alone phone call i think to someone local who can plug my car in for a fault find ... but who? Andrew who did you use. |
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2003-530i SE
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 30-March-2006 at 06:36 |
T'is a good job I'm not a betting man then! Diagnostic check at local garage (£40) informed me that there was a fault with the front RIGHT sensor (o.k. easy to fix) and the main computer. The mechanic said he is 99% sure the computer error is caused by the wheel sensor fault. The wheel sensor fault was confirmed by a manual check by checking the resistance of the front offside sensor with a multimeter and he said it was an open circuit indicating a fault. I said that the ABS worked intermittently and he said chances are then that the computer was o.k. When I told him what my neighbour had said followed by my skid, he said that the left front would have locked up to compensate for the loss of ABS braking on the front right. So I guess if I had had the time (more like my fiancée letting me) I could have put a multimeter across each wheel sensor to find the faulty one but I wanted a double check as both ASC and ABS lights were on. Front wheel sensor duly bought from ECP change from £58. Will fit it on Saturday. Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 29-March-2006 at 02:14 |
I did wonder if there was any truth in what he said, he is a bit of a 'dodgy back street garage mechanic type' though, he knows loads of tricks to get past the cars electronic brains/safety barriers. Well I tried it on the way home last night. 30 mph on the Georgetown Road (back road near me with long straights) hit the brake pedal hard. Front left tyre left a lovely big 8 m long skid mark on the tarmac. She didn't wobble or wander off in a different direction, nice and straight which I was suprised at. Skid mark was straight too. Judging by the considerable amount of tyre smoke I made (which really really smelled bad!), I was worried that I had flat spotted the tyre but I get no vibration at all. The tranny was working sweet as a nut on the way home last night and on the way to work this morning. Was terrible yesterday morning, I had to make loads of manual changes. If what my neighbour said is true, my money is on the front left wheel sensor. We'll just wait and see, diagnostic check tomorrow morning. Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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whitey
Really Senior Member I Joined: 15-May-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 450 |
Posted: 28-March-2006 at 10:25 |
Apart from flatspotting your tyres i doubt if locking them up would make any difference. As for which wheel locks points to the faulty one, The reason the lights are up is to tell you the whole system is disabled. Hence when you press the ASC button the light comes up on the dash to tell you you've disabled it. It would never just disable the ABS on one wheel. God forbid you have to break suddenly, one wheel would lock, the other wouldn't and you'd end up either in a ditch, up the pavement or into the path of oncoming traffic. It would pull to one side the same as if one caliper was disabled.
Edited by whitey |
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2000 e39 523i with full factory sport kit.
1989 e30 325i Convertible 1999 Golf GTI 1.8T |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 28-March-2006 at 01:57 |
Lights are on all the time now Hope this doesn't mean something worse now A neighbour who is a mechanic suggested taking it out on the back roads and slamming the brakes on to get it to lock up and that might 'somehow' cure the fault. He also implied that even though the lights were on in the dash there would still be a degree of ABS breaking. He also said that if you slam them on hard enough and the wheel which has the faulty sensor would lock and from looking at the skid marks on the road you could tell which wheel had the fault. Anyone else heard this? Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 27-March-2006 at 01:45 |
Latest on my problem. Start car, lights stay on then disappear after driving forward about 10 m. I get to the end of my street and brake (20 mph max speed) at the give way and the ABS kicks in. This happens every time I touch the brake pedal until I get above 25-30mph when both warning lights come back on. At least I know the ABS unit isn't broken, it just can't tell when a wheel is or isn't about to lock. So it must be a wheel sensor! Tranny is also playing up. No warning lights or anything but it won't change from 2nd to 3rd (which is about the same speed 25-30 mph when the lights come back on) half the time and also changing from 3rd to 4th is a problem sometimes. ECU obviously can't tell what speed the car is doing in relation to the tranny output sensor. Hopefully this tranny fault is related! Car is booked in to local garage for a diagnostic at 08.10 on Thursday morning. Get the check done then off to work a bit late. Get the sensor on Thursday lunchtime and fit on Saturday. Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 22-March-2006 at 07:52 |
Many thanks Tom. I have had a look at your scans, I should manage from that. Andrew |
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Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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Toxic
Really Senior Member II Joined: 14-October-2003 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 841 |
Posted: 22-March-2006 at 03:52 |
Andrew, here are the few pages from the Bentley manual. The pictures didn't scan in great because I just used the B&W setting, but if you're stuck for one, let me know and I'll scan it in on better quality. There is another section on the ABS/traction control hydraulic unit, removing & installing If you want that also, let me know http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/tosullivan/Car/Bentle y340-4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/tosullivan/Car/Bentle y340-27.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/tosullivan/Car/Bentle y340-26.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/tosullivan/Car/Bentle y300-14.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/tosullivan/Car/Bentle y300-13.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/tosullivan/Car/Bentle y300-12.jpg |
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Tom
E39 1997 523i Oxford Green (Sold) ___________________________ |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 22-March-2006 at 03:00 |
Local main $tealer want 1 hours labour charge for a diagnostic check. Local garage will probably do it for nowt as I have been going to them for years, it is just finding the time to take it to him that is all. It might need fixing sooner than later as I have found that when I kickdown on the motorway, the car will change down to third and then stay in third and the engine will screaming it's head of at 5000 rpm as the autobox hasn't up shifted. This shift fault and the ABS/ASC fault must be linked in other words it has to be a knackered wheel sensor. A wheel sensor is £50 for an OEM part from Euro Car parts. I might buy one front and one rear and do it by trial and error but that would cost me more than the diagnostic charge from my local main $tealer so I am back at square 1! I guess I should just find the time to take it to my local garage then! Andrew |
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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whitey
Really Senior Member I Joined: 15-May-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 450 |
Posted: 21-March-2006 at 17:19 |
Seriously though, all dealers have a duty to diagnose the problem. You are not bound over to have the work done. It would only be their minimum charge and I'm yet to speak to anyone who has successfully diagnosed which one it is without the daignostics kit. However if your local garage can help, I bet he'd be cheaper. I am lucky though, to have (to a certain extent) straightened the dealer out. I know that when it comes out from the service, all the advisories will need doing. The guy knows that I will take the car away and deal with them myself so he's not gonna gain at all, except maybe on the parts. |
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2000 e39 523i with full factory sport kit.
1989 e30 325i Convertible 1999 Golf GTI 1.8T |
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bpc101
Newbie Joined: 08-September-2005 Location: Bishops Stortford Status: Offline Points: 31 |
Posted: 21-March-2006 at 14:48 |
It did "Costaplenty"... £400 plus vat for the "Repair kit"... This was the bit I loved! For a new ABS unit it would cost the best part of £1000, now BMW clearly know that they had a problem with the stock in 1999 as they are selling several of these repair kits (from Bosche) a month. The repair kit needed some re-wiring as it bi-passes the faulty unit but it is essentially a bolt on plastic box to the original unit.! All in all 4 x sensors and the kit plus labour cost me just shy of £1000. Just glad I got the car £1250 less than what my mate was selling it for. |
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Toxic
Really Senior Member II Joined: 14-October-2003 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 841 |
Posted: 21-March-2006 at 14:11 |
Fey, had a look at the Bentley...few pages there that might help you. I'll have time in the morning so I'll scan them in and post them up by about half 10.
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Tom
E39 1997 523i Oxford Green (Sold) ___________________________ |
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Andrew Rolland
Moderator Group Go away rain Joined: 19-August-2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 6579 |
Posted: 21-March-2006 at 11:52 |
So how much was your ABS unit then? Costaplenty? There is no need to get a garage to diagnose the fault at present, I have months to go on the MOT (the one time of year when you need the ABS to work!) and I like pottering with the car anyway. I am not in a rush to get it fixed as I do not rely on ABS to make my braking safer not do I rely on the traction control to get me round the bends. I just want to know what the fault is so I can fix it at my leisure. Gives me an excuse to get the socket set out and clean the underbody while I'm doing it. Thanks for all the tips so far. Andrew PS Any chance you could take my E39 to your dealer then Whitey???? |
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Be exclusive and drive a Petrol 5 Series!
Current '13 62 F10 535i MSport Auto Previous '04 04 E60 545i SE Auto '03 53 E60 545i SE Auto (Stolen) '98 S E39 523i SE Auto |
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