Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
|
Posted: 05-January-2006 at 13:37 |
Peter Fenwick wrote:
The new Accord influenced by bangle?? You really do need to get your eyes checked Andy
|
Well have a look,
and,
Now that bears a strong resemblence to "Flame Surfacing" to me.
The whole "Bangle's to blame" thing is so old hat. Even rival
manufacturers have started to get away from the bar-of-soap look in
order not to be left behind. Some of their efforts are a bit too
contrived to work but at least they're trying.
I'm no fan of Bangle - as I said, his Fiat Coupe was one of the worst
examples of car design I've ever seen - it made the TR7 look good.
However he did have a point - BMWs design was becoming very
unadventurous.
Some of the designs work really well like the Z4, some are quite good -
the 6-series, 1-series & new 3-series and some are a bit awkward
the 5-series & the original Bangle 7-series. I won't comment on the
X models as I just don't get the whole urban off-roader thing.
If you really can't stand the new models then I guess you'll either
have to make your old cars last indefinitely or buy something else. Me?
I'll take a new 3-series Touring thanks!
As for the E30 starting to look old - well it did go out of production
over 12 years ago! However, in convertible & Touring guise it's
still considered quite cool. Will the E36 still be cool in 2112?
|
AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
|
Posted: 05-January-2006 at 16:16 |
Bangle may have had some influence on the design of the accord although I wouldn't descibe it as having flame surfacing. The thing with the accord is that the design flows from back to front in a way that the new BMWs just don't. So the designer may have used some ideas from other manufacturers but the put them together in a way that works for me. It doesn't make the cars that influenced it good though.
|
Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
|
|
kbannon
Admin Group
E39 525i Sport Individual
Joined: 09-October-2002
Location: 64 Zoo Lane
Status: Offline
Points: 15508
|
Posted: 05-January-2006 at 16:22 |
Regarding Bangle designs - I believe that his designs are being taken by all other manufacturers in some shape or form. Even volvo are being as brazen and using the fin aerial!
|
Current: 2009 E60 520d "Sport" tractor Previous: 1989 E30 320i SE 1997 E39 523i 2003 E39 525i Sport Individual
|
|
I_MNL
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 27-March-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 437
|
Posted: 05-January-2006 at 16:30 |
m3tiko wrote:
To the topic, can lexus match the bmw...However, we are a brand label loving nation and hence the BMW will be hard to beat. |
I entirely agree with you Tiko.
Besides, Lexus is just a luxurious...Toyota. FULL STOP
|
Citizen of the Earth Explorer of Life Marie-Noëlle or nick name MNL. NOT Marie or Noëlle ALONE! Alpina D3 2007 E36 316 1998
|
|
AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
|
Posted: 05-January-2006 at 16:48 |
I think Bangles brief was to give the BMW range a bit of a kick start.
The kick might have been a little harder than the customers (& BMW)
were expecting but I think once the new designs mature a little we'll
see really desirable BMWs again.
Other manufacturers have indeed been following suit. Just remember, there are worse designs out there than Bangles!
|
AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
|
|
m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005
Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
|
Posted: 05-January-2006 at 16:49 |
Come on folks...look at it how it really is.
Lexus, Volvo, VW whoever....they all aspire to reach high target volumes,so take heed and think that if it ain't broken...
So what if Bangle has what you might call unorthodox....to me and i'm sure at BMW (AG) it's volume shifted that counts and majority has it. Sorry to put a dent in your ongoing discussion.
Also noted is BMW's use of other car designers/manufactures detailing...so it ain't all original !!
|
335d evolve 354bhp/742nm....M3 SEE YA!!
|
|
Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 07:12 |
I'm afraid to say I think the E90 3-series is a disaster.
The sales will tell you the same too - the car is simply not selling anything like BMW expected it too. I only recently discovered this and was also told that a 'redesign' of the rear end is seriously being considered right now.
I cannot help but think of the Badge Test when I look at it.
That is, remove the badges and replace them with any you feel fit. When I look at an E90 3-series and do this I find myself rather concerned that those badges that seem most appropriate are of South Korean origin. It looks remarkably like any of the rubbish (in terms of design) to have come from SK in the last 10 years.
All of this is a disaster because the 3-series is technically the best in its class by quite some margin. It's an excellent car it drive in any guise (and the 320d is astonishly good) but they've made a major mess of the car on the exterior in my opinion.
The E92 Coupe is already having a rear end rethink - before it comes out.
The E92 M3 is possibly going to be delayed from May 2007 to September 2007 - because they're aware they just cannot afford to get it wrong, especially in light of the Audi RS4 which is currently putting paid to everything else in the class.
|
Now with FREE HPI CHECK and FREE GLASSES GUIDE VALUATIONS for all members!
|
|
sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 07:25 |
the RS4 really is very good, I agree, and they must get the M3 right.
The only 'get outs' I can see will be a) restricting the M3 to coupe only - mking it non-direct competition with the RS4 and b) RWD vs. 4WD who have their stuanch supporters in the dynamics league, which will again provide distance between the two vehicles.
So BMW do have room for a (dare I say it!) 'cop-out'!!
|
|
|
Peter Fenwick
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-August-2003
Location: Lost somewhere in time...
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 08:32 |
I don't think it matters if BMW only make it a coupe, it will never avoid comparison with the RS4 no matter what they do. TBH the RS4 isn't there biggest problem, it is the outgoing M3 with they need to beat. In EVO this month the e46 M3 CS beat the RS4 in a group test.
|
Entering an age of Austerity and now driving a Focus Diesel.
|
|
AndyS
Really Senior Member II
The Last of the Few
Joined: 21-August-2003
Location: 55 � North
Status: Offline
Points: 1365
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 08:33 |
Coasting wrote:
I'm afraid to say I think the E90 3-series is a disaster.
The sales will tell you the same too - the car is simply not selling
anything like BMW expected it too. I only recently discovered
this and was also told that a 'redesign' of the rear end is seriously
being considered right now. |
The same was said of the 7-series although it's out-selling the E38 by quite some margin.
Ditto the 5-series.
You were also told the M6 wasn't selling & yet I read that the years allocation is all sold out!
Maybe your informant isn't that accurate.
You're more than happy with your 645 even though it's come in for a fair bit of criticism.
Thing is, nobody likes change very much. When the E24 Six replaced the
E9 CS Coupe people didn't like it very much. When the 8-series replaced
the Six people suddenly went all misty-eyed over the Six.
Same with the E30 to E36 to E46 3-series.
|
AndyS Live each day as if it's your last - one day it will be.
|
|
pma1ums
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-October-2004
Location: central uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1148
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 08:47 |
the sales of the e90 have not being what they were first thought they was going to be
i can only go by what the sales guys tell me ;but in there eyes there commisions havent been what they had hoped
the e46 sold far quicker when it was launched[fact]
its been mainly companys that are replacing there fleets that seem to buying them
only my 2 pennys worth on the subject
|
its a dogs world out there
|
|
m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005
Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 08:54 |
Coasting mate...your informant is seriously giving new wrong info. Recently got hold of an official memo from bmw and all I could deduce from the info that sales were pretty good....On top of all that BMW carclub mag just arrived ...topic called BMW Sales soar
In addition, article clearly indicates "......more than sales of its predecessor model during the same period....."
56,000 units more than the E46 in its first eight months.....mmmm
Edited by m3tiko
|
335d evolve 354bhp/742nm....M3 SEE YA!!
|
|
sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:00 |
Yeah, I read that, but pma1ums has his piggies on the pulse as usual - I wonder if the atricle has an element of PR spin to it.....?
|
|
|
Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:06 |
AndyS wrote:
You were also told the M6 wasn't selling & yet I read that the years allocation is all sold out!
Maybe your informant isn't that accurate.
|
Andy, I'm afraid that simply isn't true.
If someone wanted to buy an M6 tomorrow, brand new, they could do.
Ring up any main dealer and they'll bite your hand off.
Since my review of the M6 I've been offered another two. It's spin and nothing more. The car is not selling well at all.
|
Now with FREE HPI CHECK and FREE GLASSES GUIDE VALUATIONS for all members!
|
|
pma1ums
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 12-October-2004
Location: central uk
Status: Offline
Points: 1148
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:08 |
sleeper
its spin in my eyes
true sales of the 320d has had strong first sales performance .but who was ordering them ?? hmmm companys that buy 3 series for there mid mangement every 3 years
but iam sure others mite beg to differ
|
its a dogs world out there
|
|
Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:10 |
In reference to the E46 v E90 3-series sales....
Bulk, fleet, massaged sales. Look on the roads, you'll get your most accurate reading from them - how many E90's do you see?
It's not a supply issue either, nor a production one.
Forget anything you read in the magazines - wait until BMW GB release their figures (which they have to). In the UK (which incidentally is where I was referring to), the E90 is not selling as well as forecast.
It should be noted that I said "as well as BMW expected it to" - they are missing forecast by a mile.
Edited by Coasting
|
Now with FREE HPI CHECK and FREE GLASSES GUIDE VALUATIONS for all members!
|
|
m3tiko
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 29-May-2005
Location: Braveheart Country..aka Pai
Status: Offline
Points: 1483
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:20 |
I agree that theres an element of 'spin', thats the nature of business.
Yea for sure bmw's expectations might possibly been much higher and this is a get-out clause to massage their ego a bit..But no matter how it evolves...sales targets are achieved....that in itself is a trend that new buyers like to see
|
335d evolve 354bhp/742nm....M3 SEE YA!!
|
|
sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:31 |
Craig, I would agree on the early corp sales boom, mostly sold before there was anything physical no doubt!
thinking of my business associates who have gone for BMW in the past, they have all opted out or run Audi because of the residuals. Even a fleet manager friend of mine has mostly blue ovals now....
|
|
|
Coasting
Really Senior Member II
www.TOTALTORQUE.net
Joined: 05-February-2005
Location: Not with the two-faced bloke.
Status: Offline
Points: 2125
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:40 |
Audi are stealing a large number of BMW customers right now.
Take an A4 for example, B6 or B7.
The interior is better, the paintwork is better (much). The build quality is far superior now and the engines are getting better all the time (the RS4 being a prime example).
However, they do have one major fly in the ointment. By comparison to your average BMW dealer, your Audi dealer treatment is absolutely appalling. Their servicing costs are also now significantly higher (particularly on the diesel models).
That said, the A4 was the car of my choice when I choose between it and a 320d Tourer - and other than the fact it has the most horrid ESP system for it's naff FWD, it beats the 320d into the ground on build, interior, finish, everything (it's slightly slower than the 320d, but not that you'd notice over a short run).
Edited by Coasting
|
Now with FREE HPI CHECK and FREE GLASSES GUIDE VALUATIONS for all members!
|
|
sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
|
Posted: 06-January-2006 at 09:56 |
Agreed on the A4, I have use of an avant V6 TDI quattro tip and it really is a fantastic car - quick, quiet and solid. easy on diesel for a big CC 4WD too.
odd comment about the service... I have always had better service from audi - heritage of salisbury, tonbridge, swindon & cirencester audi - than anyone else!
None of these have had higher labour rates than Cooper or Vines BMW (or ML for that matter- but thats another story) who I use for my car.
|
|
|