It’s all about safety!

Ok then livvy, here's a hypothetical for you.

A mother is in a shop with two young kids in tow. She has a small item in her hand which she intends to purchase and her purse in the other. While heading in the direction of the checkout one of her children trips, so in order to deal with this the item and purse end up in one hand. Child then has a tantrum and mother without thinking puts both her purse and the item she intended to purchase in her handbag as she deals with the child. As the tantrum gets worse the mother decides to leave the shop to deal with it. On leaving the shop she is picked up by a store detective for shoplifting. She is absolutely mortified and embarassed that this happened and imediately offers to pay for the item. You could call it 'shopping without due care and attention'. Should she be prosecuted?

livvy wrote: Some motorists are becoming like unruly youths that hang around on street corners, believing they are untouchable, because they ahve got away with so much for so long.

But in the incident we are discussing this isn't the case is it. Rhys wasn't tearing around like a baseball cap wearing job was he?

Also the more I think about the incident the more it sounds less like a clean cut case of him being totally in the wrong. If he actually started to enter the carridgeway before the other vehicle started to move then surely he had right of way?

livvy wrote: Police officers don't expect you to love them and they shouldn't shy away from doing what is necessary to try & court that. If they worried about it upsetting people then they wouldn't prosecute anyone because I can't believe anyone enjoys being prosecuted.

This is true, but in order to do their job well they need to effectively manage and maintain a good relationship with the general public. To penalise an otherwise law abiding citizen for making an honest mistake (assuming he was in the wrong for the initial move) is IMO detremental to this relationship with the genral public and not worth it. The kind of petty things people are done for these days is stupid. I was talking to a bloke the other day who noticed one of his healights was out. It was dark and he was not near home or a shop which sold a replacement bulb. So he decided to put his front front spot lights on while he drove to Halfords. He reasoned that while not ideal this would at least make him visible to other motorists. Anyway he got pulled over and given a fixed penalty notice. This man has never been in trouble before and until this point was on the side of the police. Now he isn't. He made an honest mistake. I would proabably have done the same thing. I know all this 'ignorance is no excuse' stuff but come on!! What is more important, keeping the public on your side by exercising a little bit of comon sense or following the rule book to the letter.

livvy wrote: If acts that potentially can cause a collision aren't prosecuted, what are your criteria ?

It would depend on the circumstances. Was the act done out of recklessness or dangerous driving, has the driver got a string of motoring convictions. If yes then sure he should be prosecuted. Was it an honest mistake which any of us could make, then prosecution will serve no purpose except to alienate the Police.

livvy wrote: We have laws for good reason & it is the duty of the Police to uphold them without fear or favour.

Very true but again if the Police start to alienate the law abiding public by penalising honest mistakes then the negative effect it will have on the abillity of the Police to do their job will far outweigh the positives of another conviction.

Rhys : I know you, although I haven't had chance to assess your driving yet, I'm sure you did what you thought was best at the time, I can't comment on that incident, as I didn't see it, let me/us know what you think once you've completed your advanced training.

Livvy : The enforcement of motoring offences is getting somewhat silly ( in my opinion, as you know).

This isn't actually helping with peoples attitude to road safety, I would say that the scamera partnerships have made my job of promoting it harder .

As is normal in this country, the reaction of the authorities in their noble quest of reducing road casuaties has been way over the top.

In my opinion, the role and enforcement tactics of the police doesn't seem to have changed much, if at all, its the dam civvy's.

The only thing that has changed with the police is they have become far too faceless, the government has removed their budgets to help people, so all the public see now is nick nick nick, most of the open days, advice, unofficial training etc has all gone.

Just for the record, I disagree with Livvy on this one.

There are far too many procesutions for trivial motoring offences, the treatment of motoring crimes is way out of step with everything else that happens within our society....in my opinion this is because attacking the motorist is far too easy !

livvy wrote: What I would actually expect to happen in such circumstances is that yes he would be spoken to & advised of the error of his ways, but he would also be prosecuted for without due care. I do agree that it would be unlikley that he would get prosecuted for a speeding offence. But the offence has been committed never the less. Speeding to cover for your mistakes is not a valid defence (that is the point I am making), it won't stop you being convicted if it does go to court. Whilst it may be considered OTT for a Police officer to prosecute someone for speeding in such circumstances, if the evidence is there, there is nothing to stop it happening. Your other weaknesses have exposed you & it is the officers decision on whether to prosecute you or not, you have left yourself at their mercy & it is your fault no-one elses.

The fact that a prosecution for something like this would even be a consideration is precisely why a lot of members of the general public are losing faith in the Police. So long as this kind of thing happens it will just continue to drive a wedge between the man on the street and the Police force.

Explain this to me. How does prosecution in a case like this actually improve road safety? The driver knows he has done wrong since he has had a close shave. An officer talking to him will help him not get in a situation like that again. So why the punishment? It serves no purpose other than to anoy another driver and help to alienate the Police.

thepits wrote: Nigel wrote: If your fed up with the thread don't post on it ! Be careful what you post about people, as I may think your breaking the rules by "trolling"   Hmmm - if i didn't know you better i'd think you were picking on me!

You're an easy target!!