E36 M3 officially not really an M-car

...this topic is surprisingly quiet......guess the e36 attracts a more mature owner........

......only joking...... how's the ring these days......

kevin wrote: Maybe we should get Tiff to time one around anglesey and see if that provokes a similar reaction to the hysterics regarding the E30 M3

I doubt it. We tend not to be quite so insecure about it all.....the E30 is the only........snore.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........

Pooky wrote: kevin wrote: Maybe we should get Tiff to time one around anglesey and see if that provokes a similar reaction to the hysterics regarding the E30 M3  I doubt it. We tend not to be quite so insecure about it all.....the E30 is the only........snore.........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........

How dare you pooky!

I'll have you know that the e30 M3 was the most successful touring car of the 1960's!

Wait... what was that? Slower on track than a new fiesta?!?

BREEZE,

my how the tables have turned!!.........

come on e30 boys what you say to that (quite alot of boring statistics i'd imagine)

mikee wrote: Jonners wrote: ...but don't agree that the e36 engine was genuine m power - just a tweeked up standard engine if you ask me... how very dare you! the 3.2 evo engine is fantastic. few problems with vanos but come on. its essentially half of the engine fitted to a mclaren f1! 321 hp from a 3.2 ten years ago was phenomenal. the 46 m3 only produces 343 hp and that was developed a few years later. granted its not great round town but get it up over 5000rpm and its great. especially coupled with the smg 'box. [/ P]

Do any of them actually produce 321 Bhp?

I think that the only Evos that made 321bhp were tested running 100 Octane and from what I've read very few in standard form on standard fuel hit the 321.

I have also had a 328 and to be honest the Evo only comes into its own at 90-100+mph.  As an everyday driver I found the 328 just as much fun.  Tracked both of them also, and while the M had much better balance and poise (non sport 328) due to the suspension and the LSD on a tight and twisty circuit there's not a lot between them.

I did enjoy the E36 Evo but not enough to make me keep it as I needed it to be an everyday driver and to set it up properly for track use would have cost a fair bit and rendered it useless for the road.

I'm afraid my next M if I get around to it will be an E30 or else I'll be in looking in the Caterham or 968CS bracket for as a track machine.

One point that was mentioned above was the 0-60 time 5.4, the 328 with 128bhp less was tested around 6.5 at the same time????????  While at the top end, the EVO would leave the 328 for dead, on the track through the bends where 2 / 3 gear is used that top end is useless.

Just my 2c worth - sorry for upsetting anyone

I agree to a degree that the E36 isn't as focussed as E30 M3 and is therefore not so "M" worthy. Even the GT isn't all it could be.

The same could be said for the E46 M3, whereas the the E46 M3 CSL is more like it, so why wasn't the CSL the M3 and the M3 the 330GT or suchlike.

But, that said, there seem to be a plethora of E30 variants. Are they all as focussed as the original, or do they have air-con, leather, softer suspension and electric windows too?

As the E36 M3 is the most track oriented of the E36 range, I'm happy for it to where the M3 badge.

Would I prefer an E30? I think not. Slower, lhd only, and CRX, Ford Focus etc fodder.

Out of interest, what's faster on a track, a track prepped E30 or E36???

I can see why the E30 is so loved and had wanted one for years when I was a lad. Also, respect is due to the guys who spend fortunes keeping this peice of history on the road.

So, in my opinion, all things considered, it deserves it's badge, but it could have been so much better.

Paul

David321 wrote: Good job Tesco have started selling 99 Octance Super then (and it's cheap...)

Nice one - we can only get 95 over here in the Emerald Isle - nothing higher due to our wonderfull government whacking an additional tax on anything above 95 - nice of them!!!!

....So what makes the e28, e34, e39, e60, e46, M635csi, etc, M power cars and the e36 not...

With the exception of the M1, a limited production (453 units) car, originally built with the help of Lamborghini!!! for Group 5 racing and the e30 M3*, all M power cars are basically built to the same formula, discrete and fast. The real success of BMW M came to be after the demise of the M1, fitting this engine to the production 5/6  series was the real start of things to come, not race cars.

*To be absolutely fair to the e30 M3, it's was only the boot lid/window mods and wheel arch extensions which made the e30 M3 so visually different to the other M cars..and I guess in stripped down form, it was a little more focused, which was something not to be repeated by BMW M...

All the M power cars (with the exception of the M1 and perhaps the e30 M3), have followed the same basic rule:

BMW Motorsport HQ take a basic shell from the standard production line and move it to an M division plant assembly line.....here they fit every part from the M division parts bin, from the cross member to the headlining and then transplant a Paul Rosche engine, etc......and hey presto an M car!! Tried and tested at the ring……..a wickedly fast but very standard looking car….

BMW M would not be the force they are today if they stuck to building only M1s and later e30 M3s………. “Vorsprung durch Technik" as I think the opposition say….

By the way, there is as much difference between the e36 328is and the e36 M3 (3.0l) as there is between the e30 318is and the e30 M3…….. so less of the toffee.

 

 

but there are plenty of cars that are faster than the e36 m3 so the crx/e30 m3 point is meaningless

outright speed tells you very little

the reason i said that the e36 engine was just a tweeked up standard engine is because it isn't a special motor designed and built for motorsport - remember that word anyone???

the original m1/m5/m6 engine that spawned the e30 m3 engine has its origins in the Batmobile twin cam monsters.

the e36 m3 engine is a souped up 325i engine - a splendid engine no doubt, but not a Motorsport engine

without a Motorsport engine the M badge means less - fabulous for the Marketing department, but the bloodline/pedigree isn't there...