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bhp555
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 176
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 15:47 |
I hope this comment is said im jest as if you really think this is the case then you are ...., well, full of it
I was being generous to the e36 328is when I said an e30 318is had as much in common with an e30M3 as a 328is had with an M3...........if the 328is was even slightly close, I would have drawn a comparison using the Italian 320is e30......
...for the record....respect is due to the 328is....it is a fantstic car, just not as able or as fast as the M, but a fantastic car none the less......
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BM Fan
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 19-January-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1054
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 14:52 |
With respect to the Ka and diesel comments, I was merely noting the
fact that there is absolutely no relevence in comparing cars from
different periods (even a few years apart as the technology moves so
fast). It is a completely pointless exercise and shows the
complete irrelevance on any tests.
Quite cleary I state that the M versions were the top of their class at
the time when they were built. I also think that the technology
in any previous M version makes it down the gene pool to the next model
hence closing the technology gap between the last M version and the new
model series coming up. I think the 330 E46 has twin Vanos that
was pioneered on the E36 M3 Evo for example.
My previous post above was intended to clear the topic a little by
hopefully getting someone else with more of the racing knowledge /
history to expand on the merits of each series and any racing they were
involved in. That way all the owners could benefit from
understanding the history associated with each model.
If you own an M, enjoy it as it was the best produced by BMW at that
time and forget about what anybody else thinks. If pure
performance is your only measure then if you want the best you may need
to remortgage your house and get on the waiting list for the E90 M3 as
that will be quicker, it has to be.
As for the 328 insight, I don't think it has been said anywhere that it
as good as the M, what has been said is that in everyday driving and up
to 90 or so its is the closest comparison to the M in that model series.
The great things about cars is that everyone has their own opinions and
that promotes good and thoughtful discussion a bit like this thread.
I'll leave (for now) with one thought just to open up a can worms completely.............
if the M series was / is so good - why do we all spend thousands on improving what apparently is the "best"????
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Martin
In BMW exile at the moment (Shame on me for lurking!!!)
Previous Models
2001 E39 520i Auto
1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 12:34 |
posh airfield yours, mine only has traffic lights....
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foxworth
Groupie
Joined: 03-January-2006
Location: London, England
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 11:19 |
darren s wrote:
get real will you, if the 328 was so good and so fast why did they bother to make an m3?the 328 that you raced was maybe tuned a little.A standard m3 will blow a standard 328 into the weeds,look at the stats for the 0-100 times,its no contest |
exhaust only i believe, but then mine had no cat and an exhaust - was a 2nd gear rolling start off a roundabout on the airfield.
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Robbie Bradford
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 16-July-2004
Location: Co. Laois, Ireland.
Status: Offline
Points: 2124
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 11:06 |
All M3's - E30, E36 and E46 - have proven race pedigree. I honestly believe the BMW still build cars like this to race as it's a big part of the heritage of the brand and it's not purely a marketing exercise. Lets face it most buyers of new M power cars could care less about the racing pedigree of their new purchase but M powered cars are still the ultimate driving machine IMHO. Fair enough the new M5 and M6 have no racing pedigree but imagine seeing the new M6 racing in the German DTM series, now who wouldn't want to see that!
I'm not gonna listen to anymore of this sportKa nonsense and the 535D being as fast as an M3. Strap a twin turbo to an M3 and see how fast the diesel is then. Lets face it diesel cars are becomming more and more attractive but who wants one, furthermore i doubt we'll ever see one in official Mpower guise. I prefer to compare like with like rather than see people get excited about some nasty little city run about being able to stay with an E30 M3.
I'll stick with my normally aspirated 3.0 E36, it's everything i need in a car and more, i bought for the driving experience and not for the badge, sure i don't need to drive an M3 but i wouldn't be without it now. Some ricer boys, TDi's and even the odd washing machine might be able to cut me up on a busy motorway, well you know what, best of luck to them.
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darren s
Groupie
Joined: 04-December-2004
Location: york/lilla edet sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 81
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 10:41 |
get real will you, if the 328 was so good and so fast why did they bother to make an m3?the 328 that you raced was maybe tuned a little.A standard m3 will blow a standard 328 into the weeds,look at the stats for the 0-100 times,its no contest
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m3 evo
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BM Fan
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 19-January-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1054
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 10:25 |
I suppose they're are several arguement going on here - performance,
pedigree, racing history etc. So I'm going to play the village
idiot here and ask a few questions
E30 - proven racing history in various guise and engine sizes but and correct me if I am wrong it was always a 4 cylinder S14???
E36 - can someone share this as I'm going to put my hand up and say I don't know anything about this side of the E36 M3???
E46 - as far as I know and again am far from an expert but the one I hear most about is the GTR which I think is a V8???
So I suppose the real thing is to forget about comparisons between cars
from different eras and generations and look at its peers at the
time. Apparently we all know a Sport Ka is quicker tha an E30 M3
and that a 535D laps exactly the same as an E46 M3 around the Top Gear
test track.......... etc etc.
The best point about the Motorsport history is that back in the late
80's any car entered had to be a production build and it looks like BMW
built the race car first and then went sh1t... to enter we have to put
x amount of these on the public roads - brilliant for anyone at the
time that could afford one (they could buy a real race car).
Then everyone sees loads of money coming in, straight away and I
believe this is the case with everything, marketing gets involved and
starts to maximize the cash cow. After all this is a business and
nothing else.
All M cars are better than their immediate peers at that period of
time, they have better technology, components etc etc, but are they all
race cars - I don't believe they are. My M owners manual had a
paragraph in it about racing and it did not tell you how to race it but
instead to contact the dealer to make the necessary technical changes
or something to that effect.
Therefore any M is better than its immeadiate smaller brother at that
time and should be taken as the best possible compromise between raod
and track use with the bias towards the road. The only race cars for
the raod nowadays are the small build shops and they have fair amount
of commercialisim behind them also - Caterham, Westfield, Ariel etc etc
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Martin
In BMW exile at the moment (Shame on me for lurking!!!)
Previous Models
2001 E39 520i Auto
1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln
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T.J.
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 22-September-2003
Location: Cork, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 2332
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 10:15 |
@ Foxworth - Really?!? That's not too encouraging (if I change to one - if I stick with the 328i then tis all round! ) - was it a rolling start or waa?
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Mazda 6 MPS
S1 Elise 135 Sport
Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon
Formerly E39 TDS, E36 M3, E36 328i, E34 525i, E34 518i
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DAM998
Senior Member I
Joined: 05-April-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 10:08 |
foxworth wrote:
i raced a 328i in a straight line when i had the 3.0L M3, and he stayed with me all the way to 100 - (we were on a private airfield of course ) |
yeah, comon as much these private airfields, everyone has one these days
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foxworth
Groupie
Joined: 03-January-2006
Location: London, England
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 08:58 |
i raced a 328i in a straight line when i had the 3.0L M3, and he stayed with me all the way to 100 - (we were on a private airfield of course )
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DAM998
Senior Member I
Joined: 05-April-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 08:51 |
I agree 100% for sure than the E36 is a proper M-Car. All I was saying earlier is it is 'similar' to an 328i Sport, which it is, but its still different enough to warrant being called M car. They are great cars [way better than all its competitors] and at todays prices a total bargain...
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T.J.
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 22-September-2003
Location: Cork, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 2332
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 08:50 |
Nice line up, Foxworth (worth more than 2c too I bet )
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Mazda 6 MPS
S1 Elise 135 Sport
Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon
Formerly E39 TDS, E36 M3, E36 328i, E34 525i, E34 518i
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foxworth
Groupie
Joined: 03-January-2006
Location: London, England
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 08:49 |
bhp555 wrote:
.....let's keep this factual......
the e36 m3 engine is a souped up 325i engine - a splendid engine no doubt, but not a Motorsport engine ........what!!!
....... |
i guess if you were referring to the US M3, then you would be closer to say its a souped up 325...?
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foxworth
Groupie
Joined: 03-January-2006
Location: London, England
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 08:38 |
my history of BM's is as follows, starting with my 1st!!
88 316 (addiction begins!)
90 525i,
95 328i
95 M3,
81 635i manual,
98 323i
98 523i
90 325i e30,
00 M5, (5Litres )
87 M3 (current)
the e36 M3 is worthy of the M badge IMHO. I owned mine for 3 years, and although it didnt handle as well as the E39 M5 nor the E30 M3, it was awesome on the road, and at goodwood/silverstone/donnington.
The E36 M3 is many things, but an imposter it isnt...
my 2c
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David321
Senior Member II
Joined: 13-October-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 202
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 07:25 |
bhp555 wrote:
.......I was wondering how successful the e30 M3 cab was in it's day...however shortlived....
.......e34 M5 touring anybody.....
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I must have missed the E30 M3 Cabrio race car - we should discount this one as a real M3 as well!!!
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E36 M3 Evo - Techno Violet
Previous & current rides...
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T.J.
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 22-September-2003
Location: Cork, Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 2332
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 07:14 |
The way this is reading, no car except an E30 M3 is deserving of an M badge! what about ALL the other 3s & 5s? They're not proper M-cars so either as they don't have competition history, or massive changes to the body structure?
re the 328 / M3 comments, there has been a huge amount of debate on the Irish forum about this (as I'm thinking of changing from one to t'other). What I can say is that mine, with AC Schnitzer suspension and an LSD, keeps surprisingly in touch with E36 & E46 M3s around Mondello (granted you top out between 100 & 110mph so it's not a high speed circuit). There's only 30lb/ft-odd torque difference between E36 M3 & 328 after all, and mine is a bit lighter.
The E36 M3 might not have been what was expected after the E30, but it has to be a proper M-car - it has a 286bhp 3.0 straight 6 lump with throttle bodies for Gods sake!!
(If I'm being honest, I don't think anything without a straight 6 under the bonnet is a real M although maaaaybe the E30 is acceptable - let the fireworks commence!)
Edited by T.J.
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Mazda 6 MPS
S1 Elise 135 Sport
Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon
Formerly E39 TDS, E36 M3, E36 328i, E34 525i, E34 518i
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DAM998
Senior Member I
Joined: 05-April-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: 11-January-2006 at 06:36 |
bhp555 wrote:
By the way, there is as much difference between the e36 328is and the e36 M3 (3.0l) as there is between the e30 318is and the e30 M3…….. so less of the toffee.
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I hope this comment is said im jest as if you really think this is the case then you are ...., well, full of it
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bhp555
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 176
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 15:25 |
wind up session over - i remain as i was...
.... wandering around unattended, allowed nothing sharp, unsupervised, without medication.......
...only joking of course, we're all blessed with the illness know as M.....
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:37 |
wind up session over - i remain as i was...
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:36 |
...love to see that sportka take on an e36 m3 - bet you wouldn't dare....
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