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Jonners 
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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 Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:35 |
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...and as for the e30 m3 -vs- e36 m3 challenge...
...bhp for bhp or cc for cc around a circuit it'd be a massacre...
...dead hairdressers everywhere, footballers in the tyre wall...
...racing drivers' excuses involving vanos, smg, lipstick and so forth...
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Pooky
Senior Member II
Joined: 23-May-2005
Location: Coventry
Status: Offline
Points: 205
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:34 |
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I've got a SportKa, do you want a race?.....You'll only just beat me........perhaps I should bring a Citroen C2?
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:30 |
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...i mean, david beckham owned one for goodness sake...
like, hello???
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:18 |
...excuse me sir, is this your bar of soap?!? 
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thelord
Newbie
Joined: 05-December-2005
Location: Stockport
Status: Offline
Points: 25
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:16 |
I love mine, anyway I was at work the other day when I was talking to one of my clients - she wanted a demi wave - and she said the e36 evo's are great fun, she even liked the SMG 'box.
Anyway after I had finished, she was over the moon with job I had done and said she was going to meet Ronaldo. I said I love a game of soccer and could we go together....
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bhp555
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 176
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:16 |
.......I was wondering how successful the e30 M3 cab was in it's day...however shortlived....
.......e34 M5 touring anybody.....
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sleeper
Really Senior Member II
Original and STILL best
Joined: 26-March-2004
Location: East Sussex/Kent border
Status: Offline
Points: 2098
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:15 |
 Jonners wrote:
nah
...the e36 m3 engine does have it's origins in the 325 - i'm not saying it's no good, but it's an engine built for hairdressers and footballers, not for people who know.... |
you are loosing friends here...!!!
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:13 |
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..until i took it for a test drive...oh no, stoppit...
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:11 |
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...c'mon, only winding you up - i even thought of buying one recently...!!!
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:10 |
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...and you could buy a 4 door version...not even the e46 m3 went that far...
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:09 |
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...and it weighs a ton...
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 14:05 |
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nah
not having anything in common with a 328 proves nothing
and if you measure the success of an M car by sales alone surely the e36 m3 was a rubbish car compared with the 318i...
now do come along - the e36 m3 engine does have it's origins in the 325 - i'm not saying it's no good, but it's an engine built for hairdressers and footballers, not for people who know....
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bhp555
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 176
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 13:52 |
.....let's keep this factual......
the e36 m3 engine is a souped up 325i engine - a splendid engine no doubt, but not a Motorsport engine ........what!!!
....where does this little gem of info come from??? Next you'll be telling me the famous turbo F1 engines weren't motorsport engines, 'cause they used 316 engine blocks.........
......and mechanically there isn't a thing in common between the 328 and the M3, apart from the visuals..... M or Motorsport, the former being the correct name since 1993, would be very happy to hear that the total sum of their work, to change every part.....and I mean every part.....to build the M3 amounted to 9/10 of a 328i.!! ........if this were true, they may as well give up and go home...........
And for all you E30 die hards, the clue is in the text.....'it should be called the M3 for marketing and racing reasons'.
Remember, the e36 M3, of which a total number of cars sold by end of 1988 was 63,070… was by BMW M’s admission is the most successful M car ever!  It's all relative....
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Jonners
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 23-September-2003
Status: Offline
Points: 601
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 13:33 |
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but there are plenty of cars that are faster than the e36 m3 so the crx/e30 m3 point is meaningless
outright speed tells you very little
the reason i said that the e36 engine was just a tweeked up standard engine is because it isn't a special motor designed and built for motorsport - remember that word anyone???
the original m1/m5/m6 engine that spawned the e30 m3 engine has its origins in the Batmobile twin cam monsters.
the e36 m3 engine is a souped up 325i engine - a splendid engine no doubt, but not a Motorsport engine
without a Motorsport engine the M badge means less - fabulous for the Marketing department, but the bloodline/pedigree isn't there...
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DAM998
Senior Member I
Joined: 05-April-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: 10-January-2006 at 12:07 |
M3PSM wrote:
Would I prefer an E30? I think not. Slower, lhd only, and CRX, Ford Focus etc fodder.
Paul |
Well - if all you want is straight line speed and 100mph+ performance then an E36 M3 is def way better than an E30 M3. But I think a E36 328i Sport is fairly close [and visually indistinguishable] to an E36 M3 - 9/10's of the car in my opinion having owned one [328] and driven loads of E36 M3's. But an 325i Sport is a totally different car to an E30 M3 and you cant compare them...
Saying that, an E36 M3 isnt much dearer than a good 328 Sport so if I was in the market for an E36 I;d buy an M3 - they are great cars and have nicer seats etc than a 328. And 328 Sports [with the lsd] are quite rare...
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bhp555
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-February-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 176
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 16:21 |
....So what makes the e28, e34, e39, e60, e46, M635csi, etc, M power cars and the e36 not...
With the exception of the M1, a limited production (453 units) car, originally built with the help of Lamborghini!!! for Group 5 racing and the e30 M3*, all M power cars are basically built to the same formula, discrete and fast. The real success of BMW M came to be after the demise of the M1, fitting this engine to the production 5/6 series was the real start of things to come, not race cars.
*To be absolutely fair to the e30 M3, it's was only the boot lid/window mods and wheel arch extensions which made the e30 M3 so visually different to the other M cars..and I guess in stripped down form, it was a little more focused, which was something not to be repeated by BMW M...
All the M power cars (with the exception of the M1 and perhaps the e30 M3), have followed the same basic rule:
BMW Motorsport HQ take a basic shell from the standard production line and move it to an M division plant assembly line.....here they fit every part from the M division parts bin, from the cross member to the headlining and then transplant a Paul Rosche engine, etc......and hey presto an M car!! Tried and tested at the ring……..a wickedly fast but very standard looking car….
BMW M would not be the force they are today if they stuck to building only M1s and later e30 M3s………. “Vorsprung durch Technik" as I think the opposition say….
By the way, there is as much difference between the e36 328is and the e36 M3 (3.0l) as there is between the e30 318is and the e30 M3…….. so less of the toffee.
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E30 M3 Evo 1
Senior Member I
BMW M = Big Money Worries Multiplied
Joined: 20-April-2005
Location: Billericay, Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 118
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 07:47 |
Hmmmm.......Interesting Pro's & Con's being thrown about.
Why not look at it from this point of view: The Engines.
If an engine has an 'S' prefix then why not call it an 'M' car? After all, every M car that I've seen has an 'S' engine (Does that include the US market?) This might upset a few E28 M535i owners with their M30 engines but please don't shoot me!
Or how about the VIN number rule? If it starts with WBS it's an M car, if WBA or something else then it's not.
Just a thought.......
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Alpine White E30 M3 Evo 1 
Imola Red E46 318TiSE Compact - Gone
Royal Blue E34 535i Sport - Gone but not Forgotten
Sparkling Graphite E90 320d SE.
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BM Fan
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 19-January-2004
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1054
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 04:44 |
David321 wrote:
Good job Tesco have started selling 99 Octance Super then (and it's cheap...) |
Nice one - we can only get 95 over here in the Emerald Isle - nothing
higher due to our wonderfull government whacking an additional tax on
anything above 95 - nice of them!!!!
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Martin
In BMW exile at the moment (Shame on me for lurking!!!)
Previous Models
2001 E39 520i Auto
1996 E36 M3 Evo Individual
1996 E36 328i Coupe
1997 E36 318i Conv
1992 E36 316i Sln
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David321
Senior Member II
Joined: 13-October-2004
Status: Offline
Points: 202
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Posted: 09-January-2006 at 04:24 |
BM Fan wrote:
I think that the only Evos that made 321bhp were tested running 100 Octane and from what I've read very few in standard form on standard fuel hit the 321.
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Good job Tesco have started selling 99 Octance Super then (and it's cheap...)
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E36 M3 Evo - Techno Violet
Previous & current rides...
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M3PSM
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 27-May-2003
Location: Tropical Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 451
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Posted: 08-January-2006 at 17:54 |
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I agree to a degree that the E36 isn't as focussed as E30 M3 and is therefore not so "M" worthy. Even the GT isn't all it could be.
The same could be said for the E46 M3, whereas the the E46 M3 CSL is more like it, so why wasn't the CSL the M3 and the M3 the 330GT or suchlike.
But, that said, there seem to be a plethora of E30 variants. Are they all as focussed as the original, or do they have air-con, leather, softer suspension and electric windows too?
As the E36 M3 is the most track oriented of the E36 range, I'm happy for it to where the M3 badge.
Would I prefer an E30? I think not. Slower, lhd only, and CRX, Ford Focus etc fodder.
Out of interest, what's faster on a track, a track prepped E30 or E36???
I can see why the E30 is so loved and had wanted one for years when I was a lad. Also, respect is due to the guys who spend fortunes keeping this peice of history on the road.
So, in my opinion, all things considered, it deserves it's badge, but it could have been so much better.
Paul
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Drive it like you stole it!
___________________________
1995 3.0 E36 Coupe
1989 E30 325 Touring
1992 Yamaha TDM 850
www.myallracing.co.uk
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E36 M3 officially not really an M-car
