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PJSM3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: E30 water leak
    Posted: 28-December-2005 at 13:15
E30 water leak. A common problem I know - I've read the previous posts and now I've got a wet driver's side (LHD) footwell carpet. I'm about to investigate but does anyone know how to get the plastic vents out of the top of the scuttle? They look like they need to be prised out somehow. Any tips please?
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Adrian H View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2005 at 13:53
They are just held in by metal spring clips, so once you've removed your driver's wiper just prise them both out. I used a flat screwdriver with a rag underneath to prevent scratching the paint. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-December-2005 at 13:55
Thanks Adrian.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-December-2005 at 10:26
I would be interested in what u find i have the same problem with water ingress drivers side as yet not found the source.
Racing is my life, it is part of me. AYRTON SENNA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-December-2005 at 11:04
get the carpet up lads to dry it out and to help you find the source of the leak(s).
If not a leaky windscreen or blocked elephant trunk then more often than not it is down to corrosion somewhere
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-December-2005 at 14:05
Does anyone know the part number of the elephant's trunk please? I can't find it on the ETK anywhere.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-December-2005 at 14:12

Part number for the elephant's trunk is 51 73 1 911 369.

Adrian

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2005 at 09:06
Thanks Adrian.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2005 at 09:27
RE water in drivers side footwell, just taken off windscreen wiper plastic vents FULL OF WATER blocked elephants trunk, fingers crossed this does the trick, no signs of any rust under there , had a good feel around it seems ok.
Racing is my life, it is part of me. AYRTON SENNA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-January-2006 at 14:53

Well reddersM3 youre having more luck than me. I've taken the seat out and got the carpet partially up but no sign as to how the water's coming in. No sign of any corrosion at all and the scuttle drains correctly. Sun roof pipes are clear. I have noticed however the engine bay seems relatively damp and water is collecting on the top of the chassis legs/rails. I'm beginning to think it could be the bonnet seal failing and water trickling down the splash panel and then into the interior.

Anyone know the part number for the bonnet seal please?  I have seen a couple of cars and one seems to be a single piece running aroud the top of the wings and scuttle edge whereas another has the seal in three pieces, one for the scuttle edge and separate seals for the wings. Was this a redesign?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2006 at 05:16

PJSM3 - I had a phase of wet carpets with my SE. It was a real struggle to get the carpet out on my own too, as it has about 60mm of soundproofing on some parts, and that was all full of water!

I found a large number of small problems, most of which are pretty standard, and some of which related to my big accident.  There was one which relates to the bonnet seal though.  First off, mine is in one piece, and forms a "c" shape, doing the back of the bonnet aperture, and returning down each wing to the front of the car.  I believe they all should have been like this, but stand to be corrected. 

What I did notice when I experimented with a hose pipe hed on the screen, and me folded up in the footwell was that water was rolling down the w/screen, into the gutter, and running from side to side along the gutter that the bonet seal sits in. It is meant to run then down  the gutter between the wings and the inner wing, and out over the dip headlights.  Mine was getting as far as the bit where the outer wing meets the scuttle (where M3's rust) and then a small amount was dripping in, under the bonnet seal around where the bonnet latches are bolted.  This was fine on the driver's side (by fusebox) as it just ran away forwards.  However, on the passenger side, it was then dripping down into the recess where the aircon pipes enter the cockpit through the grommet in the bulkhead, and pooling there, then leaking in by the speaker in the passenger kick panel. 

I first tried sealign the grommet with Silicone, but coulgn't get right round it, so I pulled off the bonet seal and used body caulking in the little gat where the upstand on the wing meets that on the scuttle, so as to make it waterproof.  The tailing back stopped, and that leak was cured.

Another place where mine was leaking was the heater main body seal. Stupid design, but with only one elephant trunk, the water from the driver's side is required to drain across the car to the trunk, and thus the heater seal sits no more than 10mm out of the (always wet) gutter - hence a small but persistent leak, coming down the top of the transmission tunnel under the heater unit, and then leaking into either or both footwells.  I overcame this by a masterfull botch, which does work and did not involve removing the heater, a job I dread.  If your problem lies here, PM me, and I'll give you the secret.

Best bet to trace all your leaks though is to remove the carpets (which you need to do anyway to dry them out), have a hose and hold it facing up the screen, held under the wiper bades, and crouch on the uncomfortable floor with your head under the dash with a torch, and just sit and watch what happens - it's quite enlightening!

BTW, drying the carpets is a real pain.  I vaxed mine within an inch of their lives, and it still took 3 weeks by my boiler to get the things fully dry.  Drvong the car without the carpet though, every drive becomes an ETC epic!  Beware cooking your passenger's feet though!

Good luck with it, let us know what is finally turns out to be.

Sam.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2006 at 16:44

Thanks SFH3L That’s been really useful. I think I’m getting somewhere now.

Firstly the bonnet seal on my car is not particularly good. On first inspection it looks fine but on closer inspection it seems a little ‘dry’ and compressed making me think its probably not sealing very well . Also I think some water may be being drawn up underneath it from the channel/gutter and then dripping down into the engine bay to the bonnet latch area like the problem you had. The seal doesn’t seem to really grip the top scuttle and inner wing edges very tightly so with a little capillary action up goes the water over the edge into the engine bay.

Can you clarify the following please from your message above ?;

‘’ I first tried sealing the grommet with Silicone, but couldn't get right round it, so I pulled off the bonnet seal and used body caulking in the little gat where the upstand on the wing meets that on the scuttle, so as to make it waterproof. The tailing back stopped, and that leak was cured’’

I’ll order a new bonnet seal anyway but I’m beginning to wonder how many E30’s have had serious rot problems due to the problem of water dripping down into the fuse box area. Is there any way water can get to that area besides through the bonnet seal?

The second issue is that once water is in the engine bay fire wall area it must run down and (from inside my car) I can see a small drip from the large grommet that holds the wires from the fuse box as they enter the cabin. Do you reckon this need to be silicone sealed from inside around its edge (I can’t see it would be very easy to do from the engine compartment side)?

I haven’t seen any other leaks so far – the passenger (right) side seems dry so I haven’t really investigated that side.

My thoughts so far are that the firewall/splashwall/bulkhead isn’t really water proof as such and could leak in any manner of places and therefore the priority is to stop any water getting in through the top (bonnet seal) for starters and then work from there.

Thanks again for your help so far.

Peter

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-January-2006 at 18:33
Originally posted by PJSM3 PJSM3 wrote:

I’ll order a new bonnet seal anyway but I’m beginning to wonder how many E30’s have had serious rot problems due to the problem of water dripping down into the fuse box area. Is there any way water can get to that area besides through the bonnet seal?

The second issue is that once water is in the engine bay fire wall area it must run down and (from inside my car) I can see a small drip from the large grommet that holds the wires from the fuse box as they enter the cabin. Do you reckon this need to be silicone sealed from inside around its edge (I can’t see it would be very easy to do from the engine compartment side)?

Peter

In my opinion the rusting around the fuse box /inner wing area is caused by moisture getting between the inner wing panel and the strut tower from the wheel arch. There are a number of sections and channels above the plastic liner that can allow a build up of mud and moisture in that area - particularly if the car is run with out the wheel arch liners.

Also there is a second drainage  route from the heater air chamber that drains the driver's side of the chamber and exits out into this wheel arch so this may add to the dampness around that area.

On my car the main wiring loom was daubed with blutac like sealant at the point where it comes through the bulkhead (on the engine compartment side). I guess this was to try and seal that rather large grommet.



Edited by Lancastrian
E30 M3 Project - Specification TBC
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SFH3L View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-January-2006 at 08:02

Quote:

‘’ I first tried sealing the grommet with Silicone, but couldn't get right round it, so I pulled off the bonnet seal and used body caulking in the little gat where the upstand on the wing meets that on the scuttle, so as to make it waterproof. The tailing back stopped, and that leak was cured’’

I was referring to the passenger side, where the A/C pipes enter the cabin.  They do so through a grommeted hole, but the problem is that the hole sits in a slight recess from the engine compartment side, and thus it seems a natural magnet for any whater that has actually got in that far (through the uspect bonnet seal).  Added to this, after 15 years of hot/cold, the grommet is hardly keen on doing its job.  I just tried to gloop it up a bit with Silicone sealant.  The reason this didn't work was that I simply couldn't get right around the grommet to force the sealant in. 

I am guessing that the driver's side, with the large nexus of wires from the fusebox is similar, but might provide a slightly better opportunity to get around it? 

I must say though, I found that once I'd stopped the water getting into that area around the bonnet latches, all of that leaking stopped, and it is the bonet seal that is chiefly responsible for this.  Try taking it off and squeezing some sealant into the channel (underside of the seal itself), so that when it clips back in place you are not relying so much on a tired clip to do your waterproofing.  My bonnet seal is pretty new, but still doesn't clip down with any real bite.  You will also find if you follow the metal lip (onto which this clips) around the opening that where it meets the upstand formed at the very back of each wing, there is a small break in the upstand.  It is here where mine was leaking in.

Good luck with it!

Sam.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-January-2006 at 09:34

That's excellent advice . Thanks very much to you all. I need to look very closely at the bonnet seal and I'll try some additional silicone sealant particularly around the wing join area.

Thanks Sam for the PM

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