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Phil-C 
Really Senior Member II 
Ex E30 M3 owner... Joined: 06-May-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 707 |
 Posted: 13-December-2005 at 03:29 |
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Car looked good and pretty controlled compared to the Lancia which looked set to fall over on some of the corners with the offside front tyre looking like it was about to be pulled off the rim!
As for 182's they are pretty quick and a competent trackday tool as a standard buy. I was chasing one with a pro driver in it at Brands if you're happy with a bit of understeer and three wheels they go well. Was Tiff not concerned about your timing chain with that sort of mileage? 
Seriously, good to see a nice example on the tv. |
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rezaq
Senior Member II 
Joined: 20-March-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 248 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 03:30 |
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Whats really annoying is that the car is an icon – the most successful touring car in motorsport history. It's probably still one of the most popular track day cars and remains competitive against modern machinery to this day. It was and still is one of the most rewarding drivers cars in history, and it nearly got outgunned by a KA with no roof? Has anyone driven the Streetka? It’s a nice car yeah but 0-60 in around 9.5 seconds with f all grunt due to its weight. How can that be quicker than an E30 M3? You still hear tails of M3 drivers lapping quicker than modern cars – hell, my brother was right up an E46 M3 the other day with his 215 bhp version. There was not a lot in it, and that car truly would destroy a Streetka. Destroy.
We still have many many dedicated E30 M3 tuners to this date. Look at Bexley and Nigel Moseley. Surely there must be a reason as to why they still fettle these cars? Maybe they need to pack it in and start tuning Streetka's for track use considering they're virtually as quick on the track? Come on. Also, I think the program should have used an 8V Integrale considering they used the first incarnation of the M3 (195 bhp Tiff, not 190). If im not mistaken wasn’t the 16V Integrale far superior to the 8V? Drove mine in to work today and it felt awesome – I mean really really quick. Quicker than my new E36 328i Sport for sure. I was actively looking for Streetka owners to prove the point, but low and behold this morning there were none on the road heading into work in Essex. Essex and there were no Streetkas! Just had to vent my frustration guys as its been bugging me all night. Colleagues have started turning up at work now so I had better prepare for a grilling… |
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stevesingo
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 03-January-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 795 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 03:46 |
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Within minuets I had my TVR owning "friend" txting me, extracting the urine.
I think they should have used a 215 model at least and instead of showboating Tiff should have been smoother. Aarons car looks well though. Steve Edited by stevesingo |
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Pooky
Senior Member II
Joined: 23-May-2005 Location: Coventry Status: Offline Points: 205 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 03:49 |
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The car just behind was not a StreetKa but a SportKa, obviously the car of choice for the 'ring...
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m3screamer
Groupie 
Joined: 18-March-2005 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 04:03 |
Seriously chap, chill the f*ck out! Be happy knowing you've got a great iconic car with an impressive motorsport history. Life isn't fair all the time. |
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ultegra
Really Senior Member I 
I Hate Sunday Lunch Joined: 18-November-2003 Location: Itinerant Pikey Status: Offline Points: 319 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 04:40 |
What a gaper. |
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Chris Enright
M Coupe Silver ex M Coupe Black ex 318is Silver 318is White ex M3 GT ex 318is Red ex 318is Blue 316i shell - watch this space... 
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AaronM3
Senior Member I 
Joined: 27-November-2004 Location: Langdon Hills, Essex Status: Offline Points: 123 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 05:12 |
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I was happy with the overall outcome and I think you can only really compare the cars tested on the day side-by-side rather than to the new metal and the M3 did well against a more powerful 4wd car.
What I do think was wrong was that Tiff said to me that he wasn't driving with his usual abandon and really caning the car as he would a new car as at the end of the day he just chucks Ford or whoever back the keys and they rectify any faults- melted clutches, knackered suspension etc. and he wanted to treat our cars a bit better. Then in the studio he says he drove the tyres off them!
I watched two days of testing and those new cars work hard for those lap times and I would be susprised if your medium skilled driver could replicate, for example, the time he put in in the Fiesta ST. That car was notably faster than a Jag XJR and no-one is suggesting that in the real world the ST is a faster car (150 plays 400hp) but the tight corners and length of the circuit does appear to favour the FWD warm/hot hatch.
And yes, possibly it would have been a fairer test to use a different Intergrale or M3- probably even fairer still to use the Merc 190 but it's all just a TV programme at the end of the day although I too am facing much ribbing at work with regards to the time.
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Dazzieboy
Groupie
Joined: 08-April-2005 Location: Nottingham UK Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 05:16 |
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Just to underline the point me and Rezaq were making I was on my way to work this morning minding my own business when a 1.4 special edition seat ibiza comes storming up behind me. I really couldn't be bothered and carried on regardless when all of a sudden he pulls out and comes screaming past on a section of road not usually used for overtaking. Made me think I wonder if he saw 5th gear last night and recognised the car. I must say I preferred the fact that people who didnt know what it was just thought it was a nice old BM rather than now people thinking they know its an old BM thats beatable with mildly warm super mini
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The Future's The Past
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shoestring7
Senior Member II
Joined: 24-December-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 215 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 05:24 |
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FWIW my 'fun' car before my M3 was a 1991 Integrale Evo I. On the road, the Integrale was much much faster than my (195bhp) M3. I suspect it had been tweaked like so many (est 260bhp), but the combination of compliant 4wd chassis, big turbo and reasonable weight meant it was very very quick on A and B roads. However compared to the M3 it was much less demanding to drive well and felt as idiot proof , but faster, than a Prodrive Impreza I tried. However, on track the Lancia would just understeer, even if you gave a big lift on turn-in, or turned in on the brakes. The big power meant corners came up quicker, and the brakes wilted after 5 minutes. I set fire to mine (the brakes, not the car...). In addition. it felt it had the structural intergrity of a paper bag. The interior was a riot of creaks and rattles, and mone spent an awful lot of time with various specialists (imploding fuel tank anyone?). Web forums are full of stories of significant structural failures. The works rally cars were stitched together by massive roll cages, and were re-shelled after every event. I know Integrale's have their fans, but the M3 was a much more satisfying ownership and driving proposition. For me, owning an Integrale was a box I ticked, but I'd have another M3 in a heartbeat. SS7 |
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'89 E30 M3 (now sold)
'93 968CS '00 520iT '02 Alloy Audi |
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UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5445 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 05:37 |
this is something I can't get my head round. Why does driving a car hard means "melted clutch, knackered suspension, etc"??? One would think that a more than average skilled driver actually DRIVES cars, rather than destroy them. I have seen many hard driven M3's and none was knackered afterwards. But if you think doing donuts or getting the back end out as far as possible is drivng fast..... |
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Phil-C
Really Senior Member II
Ex E30 M3 owner... Joined: 06-May-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 707 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 05:46 |
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Maybe view the difference as how you would treat a Hire car vs. Boss/Father in-laws car.
No respect/mechanical sympathy vs. some. |
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Nick @ TBMW
Senior Member II
Joined: 16-January-2005 Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 06:06 |
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I expect the BMs can take more mechanical abuse than other cars that tend to fall apart under the strain. In the time I've been track driving, I've never treated my track car any differently to, for example, a press car or pool car. And the track car never fails despite the abuse (which is far greater than a road car will incurr). Incidentally I drove an ST150 and christ did it feel rubbish. Slow and dull compared to our M3 |
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rattusM3
Senior Member II
Joined: 06-March-2005 Location: Wiltshire / Surrey Status: Offline Points: 200 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 06:08 |
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Just watched 5th gear (on tape of course). Can't help wondering how better a fettled 215bhp derived car would have done with uprated suspension, cams, remap etc. All very suttle and no one would be any the wiser. I assume a number of our cars now have such mods. Could have made quite a difference? Not sure high mileage makes that much of a difference on the S14 with regular maintenance and oil changes? As UweM3 said, hard driving should not mean knackered clutch, suspension etc. I thought the beauty of the E30 M3 is that it was engineered to take such punishment (Tiff should know that). I mean, how many of us drive our cars very hard on track days, go back home in the same car and park it in the garage ready for the daily use next day? To be honest, every time I have been questioned about the car its really been about the car itself and NOT how fast is it bla bla bla. People just love em. Aaron, when all is said and done, you have a very nice car which many people would love to own and drive - it is unique. They are now 13-20 years old and technology moves on which I thought is the reason why we prefer to modify these cars rather than give in to the new metal? |
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E28 Alpina B9
E28 M535i (now a donor for B9) E24 M6 (work has started to get back up to scratch) E30 M3 (New Engine (almost), Cams, Brakes, ECU, Suspension, Alpha-N - Thanks Stannard Motors) E39 530i Touring - Now Sold, sob, sob E39 523i Touring |
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Fushion Julz
Bavarian-Board Contributor 
Joined: 27-May-2005 Status: Offline Points: 400 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 06:08 |
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I agree with Uwe...Never met,Tiff...but it must be possible to get
decent, comparative and competitve lap times without destroying a car's
clutch or brakes.
In fact, I'd go so far to say that a car that can't manage half a dozen quick laps of a small circuit, such as Anglesey, isn't "fit for purpose" of driving fast on A or B roads. Either that, or Tiff is crap! |
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1987 E30 M3
1996 E36 328i SE 4dr (Manual) 1992 E34 525iX Touring...SOLD |
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TRACKPIG
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 07-May-2005 Status: Offline Points: 582 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 06:15 |
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if a lap time board is to be made, there is no point blasting one car around then taking the next car around at 90% if there were worries about the age/reliablity of the cars it should have just been a road test. the m3 image has been hurt by this report |
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REMEMBER- POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT KELLY REMOULDS
E30 325 Sport - Gone but not forgotten E36 M3 evo Suzuki GSXR 750 Track Piece |
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Fushion Julz
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 27-May-2005 Status: Offline Points: 400 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 06:20 |
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I don't think it has been hurt too much, though...
20years of history can't be rubbed out in a 2 min track test! I'm still happy to have one and won't be cashing it in for any FWD hot hutch no matter how much faster Tiff thinks it is around the track! There aren't too many iconic cars of the modern era, but the E30 M3 is one, for sure... Perhaps on of the others is the original Mk1 Golf GTI...Now I wonder if that would stand up to a comparative test with (say) and Alfa Sud and still post a decent time around Anglesey? |
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1987 E30 M3
1996 E36 328i SE 4dr (Manual) 1992 E34 525iX Touring...SOLD |
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M3Booboo
Senior Member I
Joined: 25-July-2005 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 120 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 07:01 |
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Absolute crap comparisson! Anyone heard Tiff say "220 BHP Integrale"???...well they only came with 200 as standard so we have a modified turbocharged car beating standard 18yr old M3 with 15" tyres and 170K miles...FAIR??? They should have had standard 8V Integrale and that would have been fair! Aaron...u have a great car and should not be dissapointed in any way or manner about these silly results. Anyone ever seen an Integrale with 170K???...probably not, because they fall apart and rot by that time! ...maybe we should all sell our prized possesions and go and buy a "Street Ka"??? enuf said! |
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Owned original Sport Evo when new...couldn't resist buying another one 15 years later!
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matthehat17
Advanced Newbie
Joined: 05-September-2005 Location: Bath Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 07:08 |
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I've read all of these posts and have to agree with the sentiment that
times are not everything. The M3 is an old car now, it has 200bhp (there or thereabouts) and weighs 1200kg, and those stats are hot hatch stats nowadays. But as we all know, stats aren't everything. Our M3 didn't lap the 'Ring in sub-10 minutes, but despite tired brakes/suspension/steering, it still felt wonderful around the circuit. The M3 is RWD, and that is what is important about it; the car has such a wonderful, innate sense of balance that no hot hatch - no matter how quick it is in a straight line - can really get close to. I certainly wouldn't give our M3 up for a Fiesta ST!
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rezaq
Senior Member II
Joined: 20-March-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 248 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 07:14 |
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Good point! Integrale on 170K?? I dont think so...
Is anyone in the near future heading to said track to give it a go themselves?? Would be interesting to see the result. P.s - I was wrong earlier - I believe the Streetka 0-60 is over 11 seconds... |
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UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5445 |
Posted: 13-December-2005 at 07:22 |
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Aaron, just of curiosity. What tyres did you run at that day? What brake pads?
BTW, I still think the car looked fantastic on track driven by Tiff. It just looked right. Is the car really standard? I mean, bushings, shocks, springs? |
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Fifth Gear tonight (12/12)
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rezaq wrote: