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SHEPSM3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Evo3 engine blueprints
    Posted: 15-September-2005 at 18:20

Hi, as subject suggests, does anyone have these?

Cheers!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-September-2005 at 18:36
When I was at Chris Wadsleys collecting my car, I noticed that he had an extensive libary of BMW M Power litriture. You could try him.

Steve

P.S

Er..Why? Blue printed engine??
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-September-2005 at 18:44

Well, its just a thought, engine is comming out.

It isn't modifying I guess. I want to keep it standard, so it just as well be built the best it can be with blueprinting and ballancing. It all depends on what BMW's machining was like in 1990!

It may give the power BMW quotes if this was done???

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2005 at 03:10

No experience to back this up, but I would have thought that the S14's were very much a pick and choose affair when they were put together, and pretty closely matched components.  I might be wrong here. but I think the internals are close to where they should be.  It seems to me that the biggest step forward that anyone can make iis in breathing and management - like Alpha N.

I think you could spend a lot of time and money needlessly matching and machining.  It's not like the S14 doesn't like to rev.

Speak to Richard Baxter, as he had his 2.5l out and in peices himself.  I'm sure he would know.  Either that or chat to Bexleys, as they know what they're doing on these things.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2005 at 12:56

I have just built an S14 2.5, very close to Group A spec (320bhp) and I used all new parts, from BMW, on the bottom end. The crank was brand new and already balanced from the factory but when I had it checked it was a mile out.

I gave the crank, flywheel and clutch to my engineering shop to have the crank knife edged and all the components balanced as a complete unit. They took 2kg off the crank and the middle journal is now about half the size of the others in order to get it balanced. When I questioned it, he said most of the BMW cranks he balances are way off even though they do have the drill holes in the journels where the factory has supposedly balanced them.

So don't take it for granted you can just bolt everything together and it will be spot on !!! 



Edited by Adrian H
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2005 at 13:53
I don't believe they are way out. There are far to many S14's around with 200.000kms+
They would get that sort of milage if the balancing would be way out. It also depends what percentage of balancing the tuner is considering as good. Various opinions!
Just as a side note, my crank, flywheel (lightened), clutch and front pulley (A/C groove cut of) went for balancing when Bexley rebuild my engine. Funny that I couldn't find even a scratch on them.......
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2005 at 13:54
Originally posted by Adrian H Adrian H wrote:

So don't take it for granted you can just bolt everything together and it will be spot on !!! 



what do you recon they are doing in the factory?
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2005 at 15:02

I think you have to consider who you are talking to and at what level he is judging things. If he is crap he might speak for his own wallet, if he is really good, he might effectively be talking about 1-3% which in his perspective is quite a lot.

Like Uwe says, if you see how many M3's will easily do 200.000 kilometres and rev to 7.000 rpm it can't be that bad. If you take it above 7.000 for sure you need to do something extra and I am also positiv that a M3 engine can be blueprinted for racing.

John

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2005 at 17:14

Thanks for all your advice, I understand that these engines are superb, last miles, and can handle abuse even with well over 150,000 miles.

For the cost of ballancing (not alot) I would have thought it would be worth having it checked, and ballanced up with all other components connected. eg flywheel, clutch cover, pulley, etc. I wouldn't have thought BMW would have done this to every single crank,pulley,flywheel, etc all fitted together. If it was a ford CVH engine back in 1990, to blue print the block you could take upto 40thou off it to get it to the exact blueprint. The combustion chambers too were wildly out. The ballancing wasn't too briliant either. An XR2 from Ford in 1986 produced 96BHP. When ballanced and bluprinted 115BHP was common, even more with some miles on it. A fully ballance and blueprinted CVH engine is actually a cracking little screamer, but don't over rev them! 

I know the S14 wasn't built by Ford, but I wondered if anyone has taken time to take a close look at one of these engines and decided that it would benefit with some blueprinting and ballancing.

As I'm stripping my engine, I thought I would take a close look at it while its apart. I am keeping the car so I feel it would be worth a look. I just want the car as best it can be.

So..if anyone can supply me with some blueprints, please PM me.

Is the block supposed to be black?



Edited by SHEPSM3
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-September-2005 at 19:45

Who knows, it may be that I got a one off crank that had not been balanced as it should have been at the factory, but I am glad I had it checked.

It depends on what you are planning to do with your engine. If you are building it for "fast road use" a crank direct from the factory will probably be fine. So yes, you will be able to just bolt it all together and away you go for 200,000kms reving to a standard 7,850rpm but my engine will safely rev to 9,400rpm, that is the difference. So for the majority of people my mods will be overkill, so it boils down to what you want to use your engine for.

My engineering shop is building specifically race engines for customers, so as John states, my guy saying the balancing is a mile out might not necessarily be so to an engineer building street engines. Uwe, when your crank went away for balancing, it came back without a scratch on it, which I fully believe, but they will have not spun it up to 9,500 - 10,000rpm knowing it will never see those sort of speeds.

Maybe I misunderstood what SHEPSM3 wanted to achieve from his engine, it's horses for courses.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-September-2005 at 04:04
Originally posted by Adrian H Adrian H wrote:

Uwe, when your crank went away for balancing, it came back without a scratch on it, which I fully believe, but they will have not spun it up to 9,500 - 10,000rpm knowing it will never see those sort of speeds.



Looks like I haven't been clear enough on this. That is was untouched doesn't mean is was ok, maybe it was really untouched.....
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-September-2005 at 12:26

9400 rpm?!?

er, best get it balanced then.

RESPECT.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-September-2005 at 14:17

I have known people take cranks, etc for ballancing and had them returned "untouched". I have no idea if thats because they were ok, or whether they just charged for it and not done it (Ah! he wont notice, its only a road engine!)???? Unfortunately, there are people like that out there.

If I get it ballanced, it would be nice to get it done upto the 9500-10000 RPM, even though it won't go that far up the range, if its being done, it may as well be done to that RPM. Saying that, if its fully ballanced at 9500 RPM, would it be ballanced at say 7800RPM? I just had in mind a wheel which has lost its ballance weight. Its ok at 40MPH, but at 70 the wheel shakes, but at 80 the wheels have no shaking. Would the same apply to engine ballancing? I can now feel you all thinking about that one.

Ultimately, I want to keep the engine standard, or to a blueprint/ballanced spec. I have thought about cams, slight porting/gas flowing, upping the compression ratio, lightening the flywheel, etc, etc, but this takes it away from being standard.

The aim is to build a cracking engine which will produce what it should and how BMW intended. I could just chuck a 2.5 crank in and be done with it. But that 'aint me. We'll see



Edited by SHEPSM3
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-September-2005 at 07:48

Or talk to him

http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=22157&a mp;PN=1 

he'll help you out with serious performance (and money).

John

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-October-2005 at 12:17
Bump! still looking for some info on this subject. Need to know the cc of the combustion chambers at least. Cheers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-October-2005 at 16:25
43cc
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-October-2005 at 16:47

Thank you Uwe!  

Is there a tolerance in this?

Thanks

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2005 at 02:58
Don't know. That's just what BMW says it is.

BTW this is the only value I wouldn't consider to be important for blue printing. Unless you get your head machined for equal combustion chambers. But does this push it not a little too far for a road engine??
I can imagine that the BMW head is machined very good in this matter.

Edited by UweM3
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2005 at 05:36
43cc for Sport - same as 2.3 ???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-October-2005 at 06:17
why does not someone with a SE head off, takes a suringe and finds out?
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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