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John-M3 
Senior Member II
Joined: 01-July-2005
Location: Munich Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 175
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 Posted: 23-September-2005 at 12:59 |
Ive mentioned this about 3 times now but Ill ask one last time:
have you had the dampers checked for damage? a shock dyno.
John
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v8m3
Senior Member II
Joined: 07-November-2004
Location: birmingham
Status: Offline
Points: 186
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Posted: 23-September-2005 at 16:02 |
as i starter to this thread i ust say im over the moon with my kw var3 suspension though i must say the people at recaro are much less than help full infact prety much useless come on kw sort your self out over here like you have in germany
wayne
Edited by v8m3
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exdos
Newbie
Joined: 19-September-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: 23-September-2005 at 17:50 |
 John-M3 wrote:
Ive mentioned this about 3 times now but Ill ask one last time:
have you had the dampers checked for damage? a shock dyno.
John |
John-M3,
No. The reason why I haven't is because the dampers were BRAND NEW
when fitted and the bumping was apparent from the start. I initially hoped
that I could adjust the settings to eliminate the bumping but this has
proven to be impossible. I would have thought that KW would be
concerned about my bad experience of its products. I have no reason to
invent a problem and would much rather be a delighted customer of KW.
Surely, if one has a problem with a new product you take the problem
back to the manufacturer ? Likewise, a good manufacturer would normally
show concern over a customer making a complaint in a very civilised
manner and at least examine the complaint rather than attempt to ignore
it outright.
Edited by exdos
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M3DTM
Senior Member II
Joined: 04-July-2005
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 233
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Posted: 26-September-2005 at 13:49 |
@John-M3,
I sent an email to you today (m3pilotATgmx.de (@)) with the info from Koni Germany. Hopefully, you can let me know how it compares to KW Variant 2.
John
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A properly sorted E30 M3 is still 'King of the Ring'
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John-M3
Senior Member II
Joined: 01-July-2005
Location: Munich Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 175
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Posted: 26-September-2005 at 14:19 |
John, yes I got it and answered check your email.
exdos: I see your point that the manufacturer should do something for you. At first I did not understand why simply wont pop those shocks on a dyno to test them, its simple. But, you are giving me the impression now, that you do not have the means to do so. Ive sent my struts back to KW before to have them measured and checked (I hit a curb once very hard and bent the wheel so I thought the strut may be bent). They checked them and returned them express shipping AT THEIR cost. I phoned over first to ask if they would check for me and that my car was on the lift if I ship the struts and have quick turn around. They did what they said. This was a few years ago, perhaps they are so big now, you dont get service like that anymore?
as to your problem, you dont seem to have many options. You could pick up the phone book and look for someone with a shock dyno. Or, pull the whole suspension and start over.
do you have a picture of your car with it installed?
John
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exdos
Newbie
Joined: 19-September-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: 26-September-2005 at 16:06 |
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I am more than disappointed with KW's response. The Variant 2
suspension isn't much cheaper than the Variant 3 and had I known from
the outset the problems that it would have caused for me then I would
have had no problem in opting for and paying for Variant 3. I think KW 's
website advertising showing stainless steel for its Varaint 2 is a definite
confidence trick, especially when the rear shockers supplied are labelled
Koni.
This is my car at: http://photos.fotango/p/
eba00443822f00000008.jpg (I can't get the forum links to work to get
the image to appear here)
There is also a photo of my car in this month's edition of BMW CAR when
it was parked up at the BMW CC 2005 event at Gaydon. If my car attracts
attention in the way that it seems to do, then I will have no hesitation in
telling anyone who asks me about my mods to the car that KW is a bad
company to deal with. If KW Automotive Gmb had treated my complaint
properly, then I would no doubt take these opportunities to sing KW's
praises instead. KW are fools- there is an old business adage "Do a good
job for one customer and he will tell one other, but do a bad job for a
customer and he will tell ten others". I have used this forum to tell lots of
other BMW owners of my bad dealings with KW and hopefully, other
owners will take note of my experience with KW when they consider
changing suspensions in future.
Edited by exdos
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John-M3
Senior Member II
Joined: 01-July-2005
Location: Munich Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 175
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Posted: 27-September-2005 at 11:43 |
I couldnt see your picture unfortunately.
This discussion is going in circles a bit. You have not shown much willingness to test your dampers. It does not matter if they are new or not, it is possible to blow them out. I was only interested and attempting to help you from a technical standpoint -- the things Id do on my car if it has a setup problem e.g. Im not interested in repeated statements of your dissatisfaction. Trust me, Im used to running into problems, and there is usually not enough time to bad mouth people about, there is only enough time to get it solved so I can get back to the track.
good luck
John
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John-M3
Senior Member II
Joined: 01-July-2005
Location: Munich Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 175
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Posted: 27-September-2005 at 11:50 |
you know, for every owner you tell by word of mouth, I probably take 10 passengers showing them what is possible with a KW setup and there are lots more out on the Ring doing the same. Ive never had negative comments. On the contrary.
whats fair is fair...
John
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UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
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Posted: 27-September-2005 at 15:58 |
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exdos, just to satisfy my own curiosity. Did you deal/speak YOURSELF to KW? Or only the suppling dealer?
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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215DMX
Really Senior Member II
Joined: 14-May-2003
Location: Croydon
Status: Offline
Points: 1780
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Posted: 27-September-2005 at 16:42 |
Edited by 215DMX
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kevin
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 29-November-2002
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
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Posted: 27-September-2005 at 17:21 |
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exdos,
I'm sure that KW wouldn't still be in business if they didn't look
after their customers but they do need to know you have a problem as
they can't read minds and certainly don't browse all the forums.
I would recommend you contact them directly.
Cheers
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Kevin
'04 E46 330Ci Convertible
'08 E61 535d Touring (TorqueMeister Towbarge)
’95 E34 M5
’89 E30 M3 (Cecotto)
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exdos
Newbie
Joined: 19-September-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: 28-September-2005 at 04:36 |
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I have plenty of correspondence with KW Automotive Gmb, Recaro the UK
importer of KW suspensions and the company that supplied and fitted the
KW Variant 2 to my car. I've been promised 2 replies from KW for more than
3 weeks and still I' haven't got the response as promised.
I KNOW that KW can produce an excellent suspension for the M Coupe in its
Variant 3 form, but I'm afraid to say that it's Variant 2 just doesn't achieve a
satisfactory result on my car. FACT. I see that as KW"s responsibility to sort
out, others might see things differently.
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UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
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Posted: 28-September-2005 at 04:40 |
exdos wrote:
I see that as KW"s responsibility to sort
out, others might see things differently. |
Agree.
Seems to me that you like to be precise, it should read KW Automotive Gmb H 
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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John-M3
Senior Member II
Joined: 01-July-2005
Location: Munich Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 175
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Posted: 28-September-2005 at 15:55 |
what do you bet I would get better results?
difference:
customer a) tells KW "my suspension doesnt work, Im dissatisfied. Ive talked to the supplier and the importor with unsatisfactory results. Im just getting the run-around"
customer b) calls KW, asks to speak to engineering, and says "I checked my ride height is adequate, bump stops correct, springs are not binding, and then my dampers. Seems my dampers may be defective. Would you like to verify this on your shock dyno? I can give measurements on anything you need to assist your diagnosis."
which one gets the better results?
John
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exdos
Newbie
Joined: 19-September-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: 28-September-2005 at 16:45 |
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John-M3,
Does either way of bringing a problem to the manufacturer's attention
dimiinsh the value of the complaint allowing the manufacturer the right to
ignore complaints that it doesn't like ?
I see that you live in Germany and so any German product that you might
purchase in Germany will give you the consumer protection of German
law.
Unfortunately, in the UK my only legal redress is against my immediate
supplier, who accepts my complaint, but unfortunately, Recaro, his
immmediae supplier is happy to hide behind UK consumer law, and KW
Automotive Gmb seem happy to be 2 steps removed from my complaint.
Recaro insist that I take action against my immediate supplier rather than
act as a reasonable "go-between".
I feel that I have been quite civil with every party concerned, and never
met problems with manufacturers of any kind before, whenever I have
had any problems. Although my immediate supplier accepts my
complaint 100% and is prepared to sort out the problem at his own
expense, I was warned by my immediate supplier that I would get
nowhere with KW Automotive Gmb, so I suspect that he has had previous
difficulties with this company. Personally< I think that this is KW
Automotive Gmb's problem and NOT my suppliers problem. Do you have
any business connection with KW Automotive Gmb?
Edited by exdos
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UweM3
Moderator Group
Joined: 11-February-2003
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5445
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Posted: 28-September-2005 at 17:46 |
John hasn't got business connections with any one, I can assure you this. He is a TRUE M3 enthusiast who tries to help.
The german TUV is a very strict institution. If they sign a kit for a car off, it will do the job flawless.
I fully agree with you that you should get more help to get what you have paid for. I just can't understand that KW Automotive Gmb H dosen't sort you out.
I can only agree with John, Version b will be the way to go. You just need to make sure you talk to the right people (Engineering)
Edit: if you don't like the kit, why don't you give it back and ask for a refund? You could buy a Version 3 
Edited by UweM3
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E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Karlp
Really Senior Member I
Joined: 21-March-2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 354
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Posted: 30-September-2005 at 10:45 |
I have been reading this thread with great interest and there is one thing I just cannot get my head around.
Your immediate supplier has stated that they will sort the problem out - so why not let them do it. That is probably why you are getting nowhere.
Karl
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exdos
Newbie
Joined: 19-September-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: 01-October-2005 at 11:45 |
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UweM3 and Karlp,
I have paid around Ł1500 to my immediate supplier for KW Variant 2
suspension (including sundries associated with the suspension changes)
to be fitted to my M Coupe. I consider that the supplier has fitted the
suspension in good faith and has taken care in fitting the parts. I believe
that the problem is essentially one which traces back to the manufacturer,
and therefore I have been somewhat reluctant to blame my immediate
supplier and take the kit back to him as my first line of complaint.
Perhaps I should do that, in the light of the fact that KW Automotive Gmb,
nor Recaro, will stand behind the products which they have sold to my
supplier.
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kevin
Bavarian-Board Contributor
Joined: 29-November-2002
Location: Camberley, Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 3189
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Posted: 01-October-2005 at 12:15 |
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Exdos
What country is your supplier in?
The reason I ask is that in the UK your contract is with the
company/person who supplied you and whom you paid. It is for them to
resolve your dissatisfaction by dealing with their suppliers. Sale of
goods Act and all that stuff. Must be fit for purpose, which from what
you are saying it isn't.
Good Luck and I hope it all sorts itself out.
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Kevin
'04 E46 330Ci Convertible
'08 E61 535d Touring (TorqueMeister Towbarge)
’95 E34 M5
’89 E30 M3 (Cecotto)
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exdos
Newbie
Joined: 19-September-2005
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: 02-October-2005 at 06:07 |
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Kevin,
I live in the UK. I am familiar with UK consumer legislation and do realise
that my legal redress is against my immediate supplier. I am very much
aware that I am letting sentiment get in my way in pursuing this issue,
which is most unlike me, but I've had a difficult past 2 months in which I
have had to arrange 2 family funerals including that of my father, and
haven't wanted to get embroilled in a legal dispute at this time.
My immediate supplier is a sole-trader and he has supplied and fitted the
KW Variant 2 suspension in good faith using the parts which KW
Automotive Gmb deem appropriate for the M Coupe. I consider KW
Automotive GMb to be morally responsible for sorting out this problem
although I know under UK legislation my immediate supplier is legally
responsible. To me, it just seems a rotten thing to do to take action
against my immediate supplier, when I don't consider the problem to be
my suppliers fault in any way. It's a shame that Recaro are so spineless in
failing to act as go-between on behalf of me and my immediate suppier
with KW Automotive Gmb.
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kw variant2 suspension