Save the Silverstone Track Day

so the rumour goes...

Either way this is a daft rule and has cost the BMWCCGB a number of members.

Perhaps we can clear this one up once and......etc - it is incorrect to say that the organiser of the Donington day year before last banned the tyres then drove on them - people have jumped to assumptions.

The decision re CSL's being able to attend on R tyres simply being that the car should be able to attend in the manufacturers spec.

Can someone please advise the comparative cost between fitting road and r type tyres if for example the cost was configured over a period of a year and 12k miles?

Going back to an earlier post, suppose the club agreed to use R compound, it would then seem sensible to put these cars in its own  specific group? There seems no need (to me anyhow) to consider the other component changes as they make no appreciable difference relative to the difference that is found between tyre compounds.

 An Idea is developing your views please - During this year we have had a very nearly and perhaps by now actually - a qualified ARDS instructor who attends the clubs days to provide tuition and charges a fee which could be £20.00 for 20 mins but do not quote me on that. 

Along the lines that Nick has mentioned newcomers in particular (those without a track record!) are observed by the organiser, marshalls, other entrants by having a newcomer sticker of some sort and if their driving is suspect then they should be reported and brought in immediately.

It is then an agreed policy (signed within the registration form) that the said driver has the opportunity to go out with the instructor who can then positively assist with driving standards/attitude or whatever or if the ego is too big that they have to leave the circuit, the choice being theirs.

This way we turn the situation into a positive for everyone and sub standard or over aggressive behavour is rather than a knuckle wrapping process - an opportunity to learn.

The endeavour however is to stop something silly happening in the first place     

Why is the only point of concern the R compound tyres?
Some people decide to fit uprated equipment like brakes, suspension etc to their cars just for piece of mind. Or they just enjoy having it.
Still doesn't mean they use it to the maximum limit possible. Do they get questioned or banned?
All the aspects of using different tyres more suitable for the job have been noted for I don't how many times in this thread. But it seems to me that it is just not noticed and the focus gets pulled back to the "sticky tyre --> track hooligan" attitude.
Not once have I been able to read aknowledgement from the people in charge that the tyres ARE better for use on track.
Something to think for the people in charge. Why do you think people have started fitting R compound tyres? They have done a few BDD's and realised the limitations (and cost!) of the road tyres such as:
- wear and tear
- overheating
- sometimes diffcult at "the limit"
- poor grip once hot
- unpredictable once hot
I am sure this list can be extended.
Also the again and again mentioned driver tuition which will make R compounds obsolete is IMO no reason to ban the stickys. Not everybody of us is a driving god like Tiff Needell and able to squeeze the maximum out of road tyres.
I'd rather share the track with some "average" drivers on sticky's with the piece of mind that driving errors will not end up in a disaster than a bunch of "on the limit road tyre" users.
Ever thought about that?

I could go on and question the use of big brake kits with the same argument. Get tuition from someone who knows to be fast with stock brakes...... Let's ban them!

Or is there still a little bit of dented ego in play when some top of the range out of the showroom cars have to make room for an E-plate on sticky's......

At last I want to add that I DON'T intend to offend anyone involved. I have great respect for people keeping a club alive and doing all the work and getting no praise. I just want the same measure for all.

[Edited]

Edited by Nigel

 Jon 90 wrote:
"So what you mean is that the staff in the office and the chairman lied and passed it all on to the poor organiser.If so,Brian I owe you an over due appology.

Also leave it to people that have got some idea of what they are talking about,you are obviously not a trackday driver judging from your posts and views.This is not meant as an insult,but you are out of your field."

 

What a pity Jon 90 that with so many people endeavouring to find a workable soloution to our Club event in a spirit of good will that you have to be rude and insulting!

Brian IS a supporter of r compound tyres. That the CLUB had banned them and Brian was using them and that Brian was the organiser is very different to saying that HE banned them and then used them. Maybe you still do not get what is being said here but hey..........suggest you get on to the phone to Brian for further clarification and apologys.

Would guess at 40 trackdays and 150 laps of the Ring oh and the 3 day driver training at the ring. I might agree if you had said 'you obviously have still much to learn' .........

With you being so much in the know can I look forward to you volunteering your services at the Clubs future track days?

 

 

Edited by Richard von Bat

Obviously an emotive subject.

I have recieved a complaint, and have edited posts accordingly.

Jon 90, you have a pm, please read it.

Keep it tight gentlemen, otherwise I will shut the thread.

Isn't this all getting a bit personal?

Surely the best thing we can do is put aside for a moment all that has and hasn't been said and done in the past, and address the issue, without getting hot under the collar and offending people.

The way I see it, the Club (historically) has made a decision which caused a number of people to be unhappy.  I wasn't involved in either the decision or the group of people that it hit the hardest. On the face of it, I can see why their annoyance is there, and think that they have a justified "grievance".  However, it will never be resolved by pinging remarks backwards and forwards on this forum - all that does is get you edited for content, and risks causing real personal offence before your comments are removed.

There is a separate thread running re the pros and cons of sticky tyres, with a view to somebody taking the weight of opinion that this generates to the Club at the earliest opportunity to try to get the debate opened up once more in the correct forum, the Club commitee.  In my opinion, you guys who are pro "R" should put your arguments to that in full, and reasonably, with no personal side to them, and then choose a good representative who understands all the arguments and is good on his feet to go to the Club and thrash it out once and for all. 

I have no doubt that the separate thread will collect a vast range of opinions, which will, in the large part, support the R Tyres group.  I for one have already exressed that I have no issues with the reintroduction of them whatsoever, and agree that the existence and admittance of the E46 CSL does make the rule look a trifle ridiculous.

What you need to do though is put behind you the obvious anger that the original banning and subsequent attempts at its justification caused , and get on and make your arguments constructive and SELL them the idea - create a situation where they can't justifiably do anything other than reverse their original decision.

Its always easy to be wise and reasonable when you stand on the outside of someone else's argument, but from where I stand, we all want the same thing i.e. good, well supported and viable Track Days/BDDs which have a future, and are organised by our very own Club.  We just need to put that to the front of the argument, and the other issues will sort themselves out.

Well said Sam, we've been putting a lot of work into this. Please everyone, there's no point in going over old ground, were trying to move on for the benefit of you all, and with all the great feedback we are getting there is a chance of getting a good result. Keep up the good work.

Thank you.

Rob