Save the Silverstone Track Day

Good news to start the weekend everyone - The Silverstone BDD is going
ahead.

There is also going to be a review with regard to all of the issues raised
on this thread, namely:

* Pricing (Driver, passenger)
* Sticky tyres
* Duration of lunch brake - in line with other track day companies, but
the Marshalls do need a break sometime!
* More feedback from the club

Note. There is no charge for spectators on the BDD's so I do not know
where this myth has come from.

If there are any more gripes, groans, pros, cons - speak now.

Watch this space.

Rob (BDD Ambassador)

 Well done Richard .Hope All the efforts will acheive a positive result, after all the opinions expressed behind the scene,s -----since the ban came in.Mention of the AGM and protest +++, so why didnt ALL unhappy members attend Or ask for a motion to be discussed ??.I was there, and there was no Other Biz.

Why !!!!!, has there been no Protest by mail/E to the office and copy to Chairman Jeff. If a number of regular BDD drivers stated their disagreement to the conditions of some meetings, Stand Up--tell it like it is. With a good following of regular BDD drivers, there is Every opportunity to be heard now, as well as the future.The Forum is NOT the only means to show Members disagreement.

So you end up, with no marshalls with Radio,s --at THE section YOU have a BIG off and you are on your Roof--But there are marshalls at the next section, But they cannot See you.NOT such a good idea to have staggered breaks, eh !!!. 

B 7 VP wrote:  Well done Richard .Hope All the efforts will acheive a positive result, after all the opinions expressed behind the scene,s ----- since the ban came in.Mention of the AGM and protest +++, so why didnt ALL unhappy members attend Or ask for a motion to be discussed ??.I was there, and there was no Other Biz. Why !!!!!, has there been no Protest by mail/E to the office and copy to Chairman Jeff. If a number of regular BDD drivers stated their disagreement to the conditions of some meetings, Stand Up--tell it like it is. With a good following of regular BDD drivers, there is Every opportunity to be heard now, as well as the future.The Forum is NOT the only means to show Members disagreement.

Yep, well done Richard

I was also at Spa and with an open pit lane there is always time for a snack. Although some of the guys with us John could have done without food!!! And before you say anything I would tell them that to their face!!! (Hehe!). Most people will be that concerned with their cars and tracktime that lunch will be a memory on the day!!! The marshalls usually work on a relief basis, when they are ready a colleague gives them relief!!! (ooo er!!). Jim.

Thank you Rob for posting this thread I will endeavour to answer the points raised by the various posts. It is incorrect to say that no one has responded to the posts about the sticky tyre debate I think we went as far as we could with this one last time.

In fact I found in the end that it was a very frustrating experience - why? because I tried to take the time to carefully answer each point raised so that the debate could develop, but many of these points were completely ignored and have been left just hanging there. It was like having a conversation going one way.

I would agree that anyone who really feels strongly about this issue should write into the Club officially, Jeff is very open and proactive towards comments but if no one says anything........

We do not know how many feel strongly about this either, we each have a voice and an opinion and it is everyones Club. Sometimes within some posts I can detect an essence of 'them and us' almost like peoples remarks about politicians - they never listen etc. As though officials are some kind of different being, aloof, distant and uninterested.

(The reason that some officials may not communicate on the forum is because they may not have a computer there are many other ways to get an answer: phone, letter, fax. I noticed to day that the last time I visited the Forum was in March! no other reason that I have not had the chance due to work commitments).

Should this in anyway strike a cord then all I can say is that is your perception. In reality we are all individuals trying to do our sincere best, within the board we debate, argue and try to reach a sensible decision just like we all do in everyday life and very often against a very quiet membership.

Do also remember that this is all done (bar the office) voluntarily each endeavouring to do Club work in finite free time, when really we could be out there playing with our toys! I have also been amazed and learnt that opinion is unique and far ranging, we are all usually convinced 'we are right' because daily we make unique dceisions and we have all got where we are using them so therefore we must all be right! right?

However in a Club that we all have a share 'I' has to give way to 'we' and over the last few days when there has been one of the hardest decisions for the board to make it has been humbling to see how selflessly and painfully has been the process.

But a huge amount has come out of the process and the changes will come about in the future. My stand is that the Club is in a unique position to put on track days, I have attended many others and I personally much prefer the one marque days. There is little pleasure mixing it on track with huge speed variences for example against cars like radicals. It makes my 14 year old steed feel very inadequate and then the mental process starts to find something faster .... but for why in reality?

It also means fantastic value because all commercial track days are run by operators who must make a profit and therefore the costs are going to be higher. The Car Clubs aim is to break even at the very least, I believe we have to do better than that so that the Club is not left financially exposed to the other members who may not have the slightest interest in our passion. However charging for passengers is one way to help meet our costs and can literally make the difference between break even and loss.

The Club has to give value for money in the real sense and it is this that we must understand, we must also learn to market it properly, but most of all we want members to come along and enjoy doing what they are doing but in as much 'sensible' safety as possible. We do not want cars in the barriers and we do not want to stop people from trying by being nannying.

However we are not an excuse for someone who really should be racing, because if that is their criteria then they should go racing as  the others on track will by definition have already agreed to being competative.

Someone coming on a track day is not specifically competative and this I know is a very narrow line, however we all know that we sometimes have a good dice with those of a similar standard and type of car. But when we get into developing cars for track days to just keep going faster and faster then a strong element of competitiveness is coming through and before we know what the red mist will take us beyond safe and sensible limits. Then the insurance issue could really hit the fan and bring track days to an end overnight. That is why timing is not allowed because we are starting to cross boundaries of purpose. 

That is not say that one should remain on standard brakes so that they become useless after two laps but you know what I am getting at.....

The cost for passengers is actually a negotiable situation in reality, we cannot find space for a menu of pricing possibilitys and it is unusual for someone to come along with more than one passenger however if someone asked me I would say that the passenger seat is charged out at whatever the charge is. If two friends come along only one at any time can go along with the driver.

Concerning shared drivers the same situation applies it is the car that is being charged for. Providing that is the car is only going out in the same session each time. If the car appears in A and then B group it will be charged for twice. It would also be a very tired car at the end of the day!

Sometimes odd situations will arise and the organiser will try to be as accomodating as possible I have seen some real help towards people at different times - with situations that have required an individual response. One only has to ask..... There is no charge for attending as spectator and never has been.

My idea with the Track days is that we should make them interesting in many different ways, attracting same model cars making it a possibility to chat and pass on tips and information we should make it possible for people to really make a difference to their cofidence and ability. It has taken me years to see that driving on track and on the road is just so different, however it must help on the road to know where the cars limits are.

Every now and then I have come across individuals who have such a mastery of driving they are deceptively fast, relaxed and with all the time in the world and one 'feels' it when sitting with them. One of the instructors at the Nurburgring can drive a 318 faster than most can their M3 and surely these attributes must be of more 'real' value than relying on a set of sticky rubber?, massive brakes and more power. That sort of craft takes time and dedication and will help everyday driving and provide their passengers with a fantastic experience. We have members who can help to develop such skills and will generously impart them this is vastly different in my mind to a quick fix. 

All the above my opinion and not particularly the Club...

Richard 

     

John W wrote: Wise words from Richard, thanks for that. However I still think the powers that be in the Club should jolly well get a computer and talk to members here on this forum. It wouldn't kill them. My parents have just bought a lap top (first ever computer for them) and they have just learned the dark art "sending an e-mail". If they can join this century, senior members of the Club should be able to as well.

Spot On

Firstly let me say this, I have never been to or been involved with a track day, I would however like to go to one of these events one day as I reserved my adrenaline rushes to the Pro-Street Dragracing, which I took part in at Santa Pod in the 1980's and would therefore like to experience the atmosphere if nothing else at one of the events at Silverstone or Croft etc.

Twenty years ago when I was throwing myself up a dragstrip every weekend I had little knowledge of what went into such an event, as time went on I found out that it was not the walk in the park that we the competitors thought it was. The 'powers at be' within the BMW club have their own lives, this I agree, as we all do. But sometimes the 'powers at be' can become detached, often without realising it, from those who they govern within the envelope of the club. Maybe it is time that they released the reins to a degree in respect to events such as this one. Now by that I don't mean divorcing themselves or being divorced from the event altogether but perhaps, as it appears that is happening anyway, one or two people with the contacts, experience etc take on the event planning etc and leave the 'powers at be' to run the club's other aspects. As long as both sides continue to communicate with each other and both sides can compromise and discuss problems before they get out of hand, then personally I don't see there being a problem.

I don't know how the club works, as due to many reasons I am not a member, just an interested outsider looking in, but if the club officials are having a hard time overseeing and controlling outside events such as this, why not have a seperate section altogether strictly for events. Have one chief who liases with those directly involved with tracks etc, and that one chief would liase with the other members of the committee thus taking the pressure to be up to speed, no pun intended, off the other committee membership.

To nominate one person on the committee/management to oversee events and sort out wrangles and problems would in the long run make life easier. That one person should be someone who is onsite on a regular basis, that way they can keep in touch with you the members at grass root level.

As a footnote, and I apologise if this has run on a long time, from what I have seen on this site, you are a great bunch of people and you pull together. These events are a great way to meet and greet and to test the cars and yourselves too. It would be a tragedy if events like this one were lost through the loss of communication tween the frontline..you...and the 'powers at be'. I am not a member and generally I don't get taken seriously but I do respect those who fight for what they want, as you are doing here.

I also know first hand what a thankless task it can be to help organise an event too, last summer the Skyline site wanted a shoot-out with them and the GT4 Celica club, the original venue fell through but I managed to use my contacts with Pod to arrange a day for them in August last year. Went brilliantly too by all accounts, opened up an annual event possibility. I, on the other hand was asked to leave the site after problems with a troublesome individual. Cest la Vie.

Edited by Goldryder

I agree James that if the membership number drops, the management would usually start asking questions as to why, but I imagine there is little or no audit of members joining or leaving, and those who do choose to leave don't always say why they are leaving. For instance, if you decide to leave there can be a multitude of reasons why, unless those who leave, or threaten to leave put the real reason behind the decision, such as this evident communication breakdown, then the management of the club will not be aware of a problem. Its obvious they don't come onto the site often enough, so highlighting a problem has to be done in a more direct way. Going in mob handed will not do the job either as I suspect the entire event calender might be dropped as a sort of punishment. Its difficult where to draw a line, but if one person was nominated by the membership, not the committee, to represent the membership in problems like this, it might well make a difference. That nominated person would go to meetings as a mediator and as a grass root level representative, the club would be forced to take notice of that person, cos there is way too much to lose if they didn't.

The club needs membership, the membership wants a decent level of communication, sometimes, as an outsider, I get the feeling that the club has lost sight of what is happening at grass root level and communications have broken down as a result of that. Its a great shame but not irreversable.

Find someone that the management will listen to and take notice of and who has the full backing of the general membership and essentially drag the management, kicking and screaming if need be, back around the table and get this mess sorted. Otherwise events like this will be divorced from the main club and splinter clubs will form, which would be a great pity imho.

The 'management' are members elected by other members.
If you want change then you need to make your voice heard at national committee level.. the meetings are not secret, you could go along if you really wanted to.
But as ever no one does.. then again nor do I for that matter.. I'm sort of happy with it all as it is.. the odd few times I have had a point to make a letter to the chairman sorts it..
There is absolutely nothing to stop anyone organising an event to their own standards.. thats what I did with Croft.. and the East Anglian lot with Cadwell before that.

The forum is not the place to complain.. no one will notice.. not enough people come here.. sure we get a lot of visitors passing through, but hard core club members are in the minority here.. My bookings for Croft are a testimony to that.. only a handful actually come through the forum.. most of them are recruited in the time honoured traditional way by word of mouth at other club events.

If you are serious about adressing the sticky tire issue then may I suggest that you write to the chairman of the club and send a copy to the national committee and the magazine editor.

Nick