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John W View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 15:55
Nick....re: sticky tyres, sorry mate, I am pleased that they are allowed at Croft, see you there.

jon90....as stated in my earlier post in this thread I will be using Dunlop Supersport Race tyres. As I stated earlier, they fit somewhere between a road tyre and something like a Michelin Cup. Neither fish nor foul and this shows up the Club's rule for being the ass it is.
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Nick View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 14:46
Originally posted by DAWIEM3 DAWIEM3 wrote:

Does anybody know the attendance figures of the last few AGM`s.


Dismal.. hardly anyone bar the committee there this year, just me and a few others.
We are a members club, each and every one of us can influence the way things are done. It's just that no-one bothers.. they just complain about the ones that do.
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M3Moose View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 14:19
Nick, I have read nothing but excellent reports about your Croft Trackdays and I would love to attend, unfortunately my car is sleeping at the 'Ring so maybe another time.
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Nick View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 14:04
Originally posted by John W John W wrote:


1) Nick's days at Croft are great. This year will be my 6th one on the bounce. He doesn't mind sticky tyres himself, but he has to do as the Club says.


Oh no I don't..

The sticky tyres are fine.. They always have been at Croft.
I buy the insurance provided by the circuit to cover us on that point.

Passengers.. You just pay one fee which this year is £20.. you can bring along as many mates as you like.

Specatators.. Free of charge, always have been.. the more the merrier.

And the best bit.. Croft is only £140.. capped entry open pit lane has never been as cheap as this.

Now to defend Silverstone.. It is NOT overpriced.. it may be a lot of things that you do not agree with but no one is ripping you off.. Silverstone circuit want to charge us £25 grand.. do the maths first before you grumble about the price we need to charge...

Croft charge me £6 grand.. some difference! Thats why I can make it work with so few entries.

Please do not slag off the Club.. I know some of you do not want to come back into the fold and with that in mind I am prepared to let 'lapsed' members come to Croft'05 without paying the club membership fee.. just this once mind.. you can come as my guests, have a great day on the circuit for £140, and see for yourself the Club in action at the finest TrackDay of the summer.

Book now before I change my mind!

Nick Nicks inbox
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 13:13
Dawie M3

You are indeed correct regarding attending the AGM etc, however, I presume that the Sticky Tyred Trackday attendees are in a minority compared to the club overall and so even if we were all to turn up I doubt it would make much difference.

I am a committee member in a much smaller club (300), we do only survive by listening to our members. Perhaps the BMWCC is now just too big, the BDD is just a small fish in the ocean that is the running of such a large club. It seems that perhaps the powers that be are a little out of touch in the organisation of such events.

The fact still remains however, that the last time this subject came up we had very little correspondence from those in charge, they took no notice of what those with experience and those who it concerned had to say and now it looks like the BDD might go belly up. Very sad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 13:03
John W,
What tyres are you using at Croft this year then?

Jon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:55

1. Does one have to be present to cast a vote and is this done at the AGM? not very convenient for the 300 or so Irish members.

2. Do Irish members have a vote?

3. An online vote is surely a good idea for all members, they then can have no excuse about not being able to influence the potential outcome.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:51
Originally posted by jon90 jon90 wrote:

"Overtaking on left only,no overtaking in corners?
If being passed lift off etc.Sounds like a economy run!"

You are wrong,you are not the type they are looking for,and neither would any other trackday organiser.
Without those particular rules it would be a race.

Jon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:40
"Overtaking on left only,no overtaking in corners?
If being passed lift off etc.Sounds like a economy run!"

You are wrong,you are not the type they are looking for,and neither would any other trackday organiser.
Without those particular rules it would be a race.

Jon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:35

 

James,

Agreed.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:34
Originally posted by m3kuk m3kuk wrote:


3: Overtaking on left only,no overtaking in corners?
If being passed lift off etc.Sounds like a economy run!
Let's leave the 'better driving days' for the old duffers and arrange 'track days' on a RACETRACK for those who want to use their cars as God intended and push the performance to the limit.You can't on the road,that's why you use a track.


No offence mate, but with that type of outlook, you're exactly the type of person the club DON'T WANT!
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DAWIEM3 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:32

 

Well, M3Moose,

If there is a strong enough element on this  how many have attended the AGM.  Somebody has to nominate and elect the club committee and we are all responsible as paid up members. If we are not happy about certain policies then vote in somebody new. We do it, with the government. Strength is in numbers, when voting, and things can be changed. 

Maybe its time for a change, and the members to flex some muscle / influence. Does anybody know the attendance figures of the last few AGM`s.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 12:29
Just a few words,I'm probably the type of person you're trying to attract to these days.I've never been to a BDD before but was going to take the plunge this year.
A few things put me off;
1: Cost,Silverstone being very dear in particular.
2: Extra drivers,passenger costs.I would have brought my brother to give him a go,but he has to pay as much again to drive.
3: Overtaking on left only,no overtaking in corners?
If being passed lift off etc.Sounds like a economy run!
Let's leave the 'better driving days' for the old duffers and arrange 'track days' on a RACETRACK for those who want to use their cars as God intended and push the performance to the limit.You can't on the road,that's why you use a track.




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M3Moose View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 11:57
Exactly my point - lots of people asking why no sticky tyres etc, but very little reply from the 'management'. Surely members deserve the respect of a decent reply.
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John W View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 11:42
2 points Dave:

1) Nick's days at Croft are great. This year will be my 6th one on the bounce. He doesn't mind sticky tyres himself, but he has to do as the Club says.

2) We have been here before.....debating the sticky tyre issue, but we got little feedback from the club last time. Richard Baxter did join in which was good, but nobody else to do with the Club came here to debate it. Very sad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-June-2005 at 10:25

 

All,

I think we all need to be mindfull that there are BBD days that are reasonably priced and very well controlled, with the sticky tyres not being a major issue. The emphisis is on safe, considerate & courteous driving with tactfull but firm discussions for offenders. I think Nick does a splendid job at his Croft days demonstrating this and runs a slick event.

It would also be appreciated if the organisers would discuss their issues and concerns on the forum so all affected can give constructive critism or praise. Yes you cannot please everybody, but the majority will either concur or dissagree with a proposed change. The club is here for its members first and foremost, and if the members or sections of the club are agrieved membership & events suffer.

Likewise, organising events is also a thankless job as everyone likes to critise without appreciating the effort that has gone into the event. Most that critise have never organised an event. The organisers also want to enjoy the days with members but also have to protect the intrests of the club and greater membership. It sometimes means decisions that are not popular, but maybe at the time were necessary, have to be made.Its likewise also necessary that if a decision is determental to the club that it is recindered. It`s not a question of this was right, or thats wrong, but what is best for the club at that given time.

Hopefully event organisers will read this thread and comment accordingly and hopefully we will all be attending future BBD`s and Silverston.

Common sense needs to prevail, if BBD`s are to survive.

Regards,

Dave

 

 

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John W View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2005 at 15:16
Well well well, I told you so.

The Silverstone day used to be well attended did it not? So what has happened?

A lot of this is due to the sticky tyres debate. This debate has been turned on its head by the E46 M3 CSL....WHICH WEARS STICKY TYRES AS STANDARD!! So what should the powers that be at the Club do? Ban sticky tyres on the CSLs? It's a farce.

And when is a sticky tyre not a sticky tyre? I use Dunlop Supersport Race tyres. They have a full tread pattern and a slightly softer than normal compound, but they're nothing like a Michelin Cup (as on the CSL) or the Pirelli Corsa. Is this Dunlop a sticky tyre? And who decides if it is or not?

The sticky tyre rule has caused a huge breakaway group in the BMWCC track day crowd (sorry, better driving day). There are plenty of folks here who would support the Silverstone day if they allowed sticky tyres.

The reason given by the Club for banning sticky tyres was regarding insurance. They were worried about folk like me pitching up at the track with a half-cage and sticky tyres on my E30 M3 and going 'round bends quickly. But my car was safer than it woud have been without the cage or the sticky tyres. These tyres make for predictable handling and grip. They are less likely to "go off" by over-heating.

In conclusion, well done BMWCC for shooting yourselves in the foot regarding the sticky tyres issue. Anyone fancy seeing sense and reversing the ruling? Or is your stubborness going to result in more "better driving days" being cancelled?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2005 at 12:23

I attended the CSL Track Day since the early 90's as a spectator, since I live a couple of minutes from Silverstone.  I had the pleasure of driving the GP circuit once in my CSL, and boring was not a word that immediately struck me, but then again I have not visited the Ring(!). I have also been to Donnington in the CSL for the past 6 years or so, and enjoyed the BDDs greatly. 

I was never charged as a spectator, and would agree that to do so is more than cheeky.

I think that £10 a head for passengers is fair, and that any more risks making the BDD (particularly the September one where we are looking for more of a family day) too narrow in its appeal.

I have no objection to sticky tyres and/or fater cars.  It is the duty of everyone in faster cars to make allowances for the others on the track, and the duty of those in slower vehicles to use their mirrors and drive with the same consideration.  I think banning the sticky tyres was understandable but shortsighted as all it has done is repel BDD regulars and Club members, and make the BDD's all the harder to justify. 

I hope that the day is a success, as it won't be due to a lack of effort an anxiety on Richard Baxter's part, and I fully intend to be there.

Perhaps the Club should write to all those who have attended BDDs and ask them whether or not they would accept a return to an "anything goes" tyre policy?  I think the answer to that poll would be more positive than negative.

Sam.
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M3Moose View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-June-2005 at 12:07
I decided not to renew my BMWCC membership when I saw (or rather read) what was going on regarding 'R' tyres and BDD. It seemed to me that the powers that be simply did not want to listen to those that were attending the track days and so went off on their merry own. It was fairly obvious that if you alienate half of the track day attendees then at some point in the future there was (is) going to be a problem.

For a club to thrive it has to please its members, I would rate that most BDD attendees were regulars and therefore a sort of club within a club. Those in charge didn't listen to what the members wanted.........the members have voted with their feet.
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