value for money of 5 series

Automatix wrote: 2.  Unethical of seller is second --- to pass of a car that is not even roadworthy.

To buy a car privately and successfully, then the golden rule has to be to expect no ethics on the part of the seller.  Buyer beware is the only approach, regardless of whether its a Mini or a Maybach.  A BMW owner is no more or less likely to be honest than another.  In the same way that money is no guarantee of taste, a BMW is no guarantee of ethics or conscience.

With utmost respect Automatix, I'd suggest a little naivety in this transaction that I doubt you'll repeat.

I'd be curious to know if the seller was in fact a private seller at all.  Did the name and address onthe reg document tally with the name of the person you dealt with (or who you made the cheque or draft out to) and the address you viewed the car at?

If this is possible that the seller was pretending to be a private seller, then Trading Standards may have an interest in pursuing the matter.  I doubt it will result in any recompense for your time and trouble but it may prevent this person from doing it again.

I'm sorry to hear that you got burned too. I used to think the best of people until proven otherwise, and still do a lot of the time, but when buying secondhand cars I take everything with a pinch of salt, and assume the worst unless proven otherwise.

Any car can be abused to thepoint at which it becomes a complete dog; BMWs are no exception to this rule...

Still with luck there won't be irredeemable faults with the car, and you will get a good one out of it once you have sorted out the wrinkles.

Hope the 'ultimate driving machine' earns its spurs with you and doesn't soil them...

cheers

Automatix

I hope it didn't seem like I was being a PITA in my suggestion.  As Doive said, it happens to all of us at least once and I've detailed my own example of it earlier. 

In an ideal world I wouldn't have to be as suspcious and cynical as I am and in the same situation you wouldn't have encountered the sort of seller you did.  I wish that sellers generally had the same sense of values that you have shown here.

As regards the home address.  I wouldn't think of buying a car from someone if I cannot view it at the address listed on the Reg document.  If they insist on meeting me in a pub or shopping centre car park then I'll politely decline and move on to the next car.  Its too easy to hide less than honourable dealings by showing a car and doing a deal on "neutral" territory.  It throws a buyer off the scent if they need to follow up.  Its not by accident that the motor trade has a reputation in the Arthur Daley vein. 

There are many honest and honourable sellers out there, private and trade, and we want to deal with them, but the others mean that we all need to be cautious in our dealings.  I can't stop anyone else being done by a rogue, but I can take reasonable steps to look out for my own interests by being cautious.

My brother paid a deposit on a car (private sale) a few years ago.  Before concluding it he ran a HPI check and found the car had been a total insurance loss just a couple of months earlier during the apparent tenure of ownership of the seller.  His story was that he and his wife were divorcing and the proceeds were to fund the settlement.  This was used to explain the discrepancy between his address and that on the reg document.  When confronted, he proceeded to call her every variation on the word Witch with a capital B for crashing the car and not telling him about it, etc.  His story could have been true, but generally if it looks like pooh and smells like it, it usually doesn't taste like chocolate.  I'd prefer to give my money away to a charitable cause than have it taken from me by a schemer.

Sorry if anyone's already mentioned this, but i got sick of trying to catch up and reading ad nauseum!! 

has anyone thought that maybe the seller is just as naive as Automatrix, and really had no clue that anything was wrong with their car?  because a LOT of people can't tell their backside from their elbow!  and in this case caveat emptor indeed!! 

(by the way Automatrix, it wasn't meant as a dig, you agreed it was slightly naive to trust, just thinking maybe the seller was similar or worse with his knowledge when it comes to cars!)

"1. The same Autotrader/AA/RAC/etc.  also warn  sellers to be wary of "dodgy buyers"  who might cheat a seller. They repeatedly put up stories of  how some sellers have been cheated (usually by gangsters posing as potential buyers). This in effect makes the seller treat buyers with utmost caution (or contempt in some cases!). "

True.  Because of the high value stakes involved (there are very few people for whom a transaction of thousands of pounds is trivial), both the buyer and seller need to be mindful of the risks and do their utmost to minimize them.  Either party can and should only be expected to look out for their own interests.

"To buy a car a HPI check, car service record and a proper V5 documentation is all that is needed. "

Insanity,  no other word for it.  Anyone that buys a car armed only with this information is wide open for exploitation.  Even if buying from a main dealer far more is required.  The buyer cannot abdicate responsibility for the outcome of a transaction regardless of what information is available.  If the information is insufficient the buyer either walks away or makes an effort to calculate the risk and offers accordingly (or gets stung).

"Buying cars is not some "rocket science" "

True, but there is more to it than you seem comfortable in acknowledging.

"I never said that the PO or the car was "dodgy" but I always said that anyone who wants to put up a car for sale should have the "decency" to atleast "put it up a ramp" and ensure it is in a reasonable condition. Perhaps, my expectations are higher than what the reality is in the private market but it wouldnt cost the seller much to make it decent enough to be in a reasonable condition."

It would have cost the seller just as much to fix the faults you have discovered as it has cost you.  They didn't need to pay for them because you didn't find them.  In effect, you overpaid for the car.

"It is only the few "dodgy" sellers who sell cars without a proper VAT receipt to "line their pockets" who  need to be tackled and weeded  out of the second hand car market!."

How, precisely, do you expect to identify the dodgy sellers, or buyers, from the ordinary decent ones?  The potential loss on a transaction on the part of either buyer or seller is not trivial and each party needs to take appropriate and reasonable steps to avoid being had.  In addition, avoiding issuing a VAT receipt is probably one of the least likely of the scams that they will be trying to pull.

Your faith in human nature is touching but ultimately has the potential to be easily misplaced.  Your experience has provided the opportunity to be a learning experience but I'm not sure you have recognized the lesson yet.

BTW, I do think your response to J7 VNK was a bit of an over-reaction.  He is a positive contributor to many threads on this forum and this thread does contain a lot of long and detailed messages that one would need a reasonable amount of time to wade through.  His observations are constructive and valid in the circumstances.