value for money of 5 series

Automatix,

Read your comments about brakes prices from GSF but beware! Their discs are Brembo - these are fine and are on my 540 now. Their pads are Textar and you do not want these! I went for BMW pads but there is a decent 3rd party brand available - Jurid I think??

Brembo discs and BMW pads and a new wear sensor (GSF one fine) all fitted by Benstens (good independent but nowhere near you) came to about £200 all in which is good VFM IMHO.

Just like bad shops, there are bad customers. The worst are the hypochondriacs who want parts at half price installed in half the time while paying back street shop hourly rates and expecting the same quality as genuine parts installed by qualified technicians.

The key to prevent getting "stung" is part genetics, part initiative, part common sense, and a splash of reality. While most can probably figure out how to put fuel in a tank, not everybody can learn how to replace something as simple as brake pads. That's genetics. There's a level of mechanical aptitude required to pick up a spanner. It’s too bad really, you'd think an intelligent person with enough study can do anything. Unfortunately, mechanical ability is just something that can't be learned.

Without initiative you won't search out the answers, strive to learn the idiosyncrasies, basically expecting to have everything spoon fed. Common sense and a splash of reality are obviously essential to deal with any situation and successfully negotiate the corrective action without drama.

In truth, when a mechanic can't repeat the customer's problem, he has to go on hunches and what sounds best in laymen’s terms when it comes to explain his theory. "Oh you have a handling problem? Hmm... nothing seems obvious... uh... well we need to replace a bunch of various suspension bits. Yeah, that should cure your ghost."

Sometimes a customer's demeanor reflects the service he or she gets, even the fixes the garage is willing to perform. What a customer is willing to try, allow, or expect etc, is usually determined within a few minutes of them walking in the door. "My car is making a funny sound," that's the best. Somebody can go under there, do an honest search, find nothing really, but fix or adjust something and the customer walks away feeling happy they were right, there was something wrong. Many mechanics will be biased on the type of corrective action needed before they even get under the car.

The problem is when mechanics don't take the time to explain that there isn't a problem. That's hard to get people to buy off on. They come in thinking they've got a fault but in reality it's the customer's over active imagination. How do you respectfully attack this? The less honest types pull this off without a hitch, they "find something" and fix it. This is reality.

Jamie, having something go wrong after somebody performs a pre-purchase inspection can't always be the fault of the mechanic that did the inspection. Surely you don’t actually think they remove and dismantle every relay and sensor to test them for possible future failure? All they can go on is what’s working at the time of the inspection.

Now I don’t mean to defend the mechanic so much. An honest mechanic with real ability and modest intensions are like hens teeth and chicken lips; rare. This is what motivated me to take on my own work. Years later, I now do almost everything on my own. If I bring my car to the dealer it’s to use their elaborate alignment machine or comprehensive exhaust gas analyzer.

I apologize for the lack of helpful advice in my post. My intensions were just to highlight a fact not yet pointed out; sometimes poor experiences with cars can be equally blamed on the owner as well as the mechanics.

For the record, I don't own/operate or work in a car shop.

Take care and good luck,

Jake

I would agree with Grobda on this one. His observations are the same as mine, so it would be pointless to list them all again. The most I have ever spent on a car myself is 250 quid, but I bought the Chevette with the full expectation that I would have to replace large amounts of consumables on the car. Since I bought her in august 2003 I have had to replace the entire braking system (200 quid for parts) and the suspension (150 quid for parts), headlights (50 quid), welding (300 quid), work for the last MoT (250 quid) and then the usual servicing bits and pieces, plus all the time I have spent which could have been done by a specialist instead. Basically the car has cost me roughly a thousand pounds in parts in the last year, and the car itself may have a market value at best of £500. Does this make me a mug? Well sure, I could have saved the grand and bought a nice anonymous hatchback for £1250. But then the Chevette has served the purpose I bought it for - it has been a simple mechanical device I could learn how to wield a spanner properly on, and has given great driving pleasure in return.

Those skills and confidence allow me to tackle bigger problems, like the 525e! This is a step up for me in complication, and is a little daunting. But I know if I approach this in the same way as I did the Chevette I should have no problems. I paid 150 quid for the car from a scrapyard, and again I fully expect to pay a fair amount in parts and for work I can't do myself. Today I spent 70 quid on a new timing belt and tensioner from BMW, on tuesday I spent 100 quid on other bits I need and I have already paid 100 quid to the specialist for giving her a good once over and getting her running sweetly. So there we go, I've paid almost double the value of the car in parts since I bought her, but I just know I couldn't get one like her structurally for less than 500 quid.

Basically, if you are after a cheap car then the old motto is to buy as new and as expensive as you can afford, because if you aim to save in the short term by buying one cheap then you will undoubtedly pay in the long term to get bits replaced. this isn't so much a problem if you can do the work yourself. I don't feel as if I got stung, as for both cars I fully expected to pay out some cash for replacement bits. besides, I've enjoyed rebuilding the Chevette and I am currently enjoying working on the 525e as it's all a new challenge!

I feel the poor quality of work is more down to individual laziness. Attention to detail and a drive to do the right thing, even when you don't want to, takes enormous amounts of energy. Often times its fruitless, doesn't pay off, and goes unnoticed.

The reason being that normally a customer doesn't know or care how their problem is fixed, as long as its fixed when they drive away. 99% of the time, the quality of work you get is based on those few minutes of interaction between the mechanic and the customer. After all, they wouldn't normally be aware of the kind of attention each component received. It’s the end result that gets noticed.

Did the mechanic replace that questionable bolt or nut? Did he take a moment to pick out all the built up brake dust in the caliper? Everything still went back on and works as it’s supposed to, but maybe the next time around that questionable piece of hardware causes hours of fuss. Or maybe the built up debris around the caliper piston finally takes its toll and begins to bind it up causing the car to pull.

There are millions of details any mechanic will identify during the course of a repair that he or she should take some sort of action on, but don't. They're being paid for one job and time spent anywhere else eats into their profits. Why should they wipe the dirt off the steering rack and re-secure that protection boot while their in there to service the brakes? Is the customer going to know if they don't? Nope. Those 2 factors, laziness and a need to make speedy repairs, are very hard to overcome.

I'd say they usually possess the training and knowledge to do the job right, but I question whether they fully apply it. This nobility is tested most when a car is brought in for trouble shooting; especially when the problem is not clear cut. In the case of your handling woes, the obvious possibilities have been exhausted and the minute ones are numerous, tedious, and difficult to pin down; a true test of a mechanics resilience. The eventual fix may seem trivial and frustrating that it wasn't identified earlier. Unfortunately this is how it goes sometimes.

On the subject of inferior components, this is even more treacherous. Some aftermarket components are perfectly fine and pennies compared to the genuine part, but others are horribly under-speced. Even from the same manufacturer! Take Febi for instance. I'm happy to use their anti-sway bar links, but I feel their control arms are much too prone to wear. I can go through a set of Febi control arms in about a year. The BMW replacements can last you 5 years under the same conditions.

The problem here is the surface hardness spec of the ball joint integral with the control arm. Lemforder is the OEM for the E30 and E34 control arms (possibly others as well). They are the only suitable replacement for tracked cars in my opinion. Lesser brands have been known to fail at the ball and this is down to the heat treatment spec. For a typical road car, the quality and price is quantified in its ability to outlast the others.

The only secret with this particular component is to buy the genuine Lemforder article from an aftermarket source. It will be the exact piece sold by BMW, only the Roundel will be removed. Oh, and the price will be much better.

Brake discs are the same. I've been happy with the ATE replacements for my E34, but when it comes to the E30 M3, the BMW/Balo "Evo" discs are again the only recommended replacements. The benefits of using these instead of other aftermarket discs are well documented for the E30 M3. And again, it comes down to metallurgy.

Now back to those Febi sway bar links, lesser examples are extremely frustrating due to the smallest of details. When you inspect the rubber booty on the ball joint you will see a mold line. The booty on the cheapies have a sharp bend right on the mold line whereas the Febi replacements are nice and round. I've had the no-name brand split on that mold line in less than 30 days. I return them and 30 days later it’s the same thing. So now I use Febi when it comes to these.

What is even more frustrating is when you call up places like Euro Car Parts you can ask for OEM replacements and you won't get it. Trying to get proper Lemforder control arms from them when they push Febi as OEM is very irritating. Especially when the young chap behind the desk doesn't have a clue. He's told Febi is OEM and by god it must be! But it’s not his fault.

Most penny pinchers are happy to be told their splurging on OEM components, and they probably won't notice the difference. On one occasion I walked in to pick up my OEM front hub bearings and the kid pushed across this truly crap product and was adamant it was OE. I couldn't convince him to save my life. I showed him the genuine replacement and he still wouldn't back down claiming it was OEM "quality". Sorry, it was junk. Even the Febi replacement was worlds apart from what he was calling OE. They eventually sourced me a proper SKF hub.

So there are many pitfalls, and it’s taken me a long time to learn to avoid only a few. When it comes down to it, I don't believe anything I'm told unless I can verify it myself. I do my own work because in my experience, given the opportunity others will skimp on your ride. Oh, well I guess I like to turn my own wrenches too. But that’s has been my underlying motivation for a long time.

I just bought the BMW cam timing tool for the quad cam V8 in my 530/540 because I didn't want to trust anybody else to do it, not even my dealer. The tool cost me about £60 more than the 2 hour labor quote they gave me, but I take comfort in verifying the job myself, and hey, I've got a cool tool to keep for the next time.

Jake