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Coasting View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-February-2005 at 10:50

I'll just stay out on this limb where I disagree with virtually all of the above!  And, not for the sake of controversy.

You can't judge all dealers on singular experience.

Are you all trying to say the independents are 100% trustworthy?

If we're going to make comparisons please lets make them fair and level!

Independents better? Sorry, but they're not. 

They have nothing like the standards to meet that BMW dealerships have and if you have had a bad experience then there is only one thing to do - complain.  Then, if you don't get full satisfaction, get in touch with BMW GB.  Then, if you're still unhappy, get in touch with the Press.  You have MUCH more comeback with a dealer than you do with even the most reputable non-dealer garage.

It really is that simple when it comes to meeting expectations.  BMW dealers have to.  Independents don't.  You can say they have their livelihood to think of, yes, but so do dealer groups.

They both have profit margins and they both make mistakes.

To say that Dealers can't be trusted carte blanche and that you should take it to an independant just doesn't add up.

 

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-February-2005 at 06:39
David, that's really bad service, glad I haven't experienced anything like
that. If i had, like you I wouldn't go back for more!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-February-2005 at 06:16
Assume your car has had 10 services by BMW in its life so far. Say BMW servicing is 10% more than an independant, Would you expect your car to be worth 10% more than another car that didnt have full BMW history?
Morethan likely you would, However when it commes to sell your car people will be looking at more than the stamps in the book, And if there is another car down the road 10% cheaper with full history what car do you think they will buy?
I will never let a dealer near any of my cars again.
here's why
They failed 3 times to repair a leak on my gearbox (E30M3)

They refused to replace the timing chain in my E30m3
saying there was nothing wrong with it. (took the car to an idependant who said it was the worst sounding engine he had heard in an M3)

I took my 523 in a few weeks ago for a gearbox oil leak (rear seals) and I asked them to replace the clutch whilst the gearbox was out (clutch juddered a bit and was very stiff). Car was booked it 2 weeks in advance, Went to collect the car New clutch fitted but not the seals, Asked why they said the box was not leaking. So I asked where the oil was comming from that covered the back of the gearbox? Answer "we dont know" So I pointed outh that on the last service the gearbox needed 1 pint of oil!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-February-2005 at 05:26
Corr this is difficult one. My Sport Evo has part BMW, part Independant
specialists and has done 52k. When I was looking for a Sport I was
looking for a car, which was both mint and that had a full
comprehensive history, which preferably was FBMW. As we've all
probably found once you start looking it doesn't take long to realise that
just because a car has FBMWH it doesn't necessary make it a good clean
car; as Phil C says it really is a combination of good bodywork, interior,
engine etc and SH that makes a good car and that's what most people are
looking for when they are buying.

Since owning my car I've had my car serviced (insp 1) at the local BMW
dealers and they did a very good job, but at that time I knew that the guy
that did all the maintenance on the E30 M3' was a bit of fanatic, knew his
stuff and so I felt confident that it was going to be done well. Trouble is
he has now moved on from the workshop so what do you do? To my
knowledge I appreciate that the remaining BMW guys are well trained but
they are not working on these cars every week and i kind of like the
idea that a tech is very familiar with any vehicle that they are working on.
In addition, my local dealers have informed me that they no longer have
the equipment to check the diagnostic/fault codes on these cars so it all
is done manually.

The thing is I have been using my local dealers since 1991. I know the
service manager quite well and remember when he was still on the front
desk so I do feel confident about using them. I guess I really won't know
if the workmanship is still as good until after the next service! If it's not
I'll re-think and maybe take my car to Bexleys as I've heard a lot of good
reports about them, but seems like a bit of grief dropping the car off and
getting back from my area (Hertford)?

Craig, as your car does have a FBWSH and only 65k it would be a shame
to loose it. There are some purists that will ensist on nothing else but
FBMWSH, if you have really clean car and want to be be in the position to
sell it to those people then BMW it is, if you're not fussed and there's a
superb independant specialist in your area, go with them dude.

If I were in your position I would probably get it serviced at the main
dealer so long as I knew that they are good. If they are not up to your
standard then maybe go for independent.

You could just take the approach to let BMW service the car just to get the
stamp and then do all the gritty work yourself, if you like doing it that is?
that's kinda what I do really, you just can't beat working on an M3,
ahhhhh bliss, the smell in the engine bay, if only it were available in a
bottle!

Sorry folks getting carried away there, but they do have a very distinctive
smell, oops I'll stop now.......




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-February-2005 at 03:11
One question:

Would you prefer your car to be in 100% working order OR have a nice stamped up book with main dealer stamps?

(Evosport, Munich Motors have quoted £250.00 odd for an Inspection 1 but as you say that the garage is needing your car from cold I suspect you are having your valves done which isn't included in this cost)

Edited by Phil-C
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2005 at 14:27
evosport, If I were buying your car off you which I'm not (I have my own thanks!) I would be more impressed with a specialist history than a dealer’s. To be honest I'd be more impressed with your own servicing provided it is well documented than a dealer’s. Full dealer history is a scam! Who is it that tells us that it affects resle values? The very people that sold us the car in the first place, the very people who set to profit from your servicing bills.

Unfortunately it is true that service history has an affect on car values which sadly are fashion accessories to most and as such loose value faster than yesterday’s newspaper. But a 15 year old car has little to gain from the bullpoo and in fact will only become a poorer car because of the lack of care it will receive. In a dealership techs are interested in one thing...Money! The more services the knock out in a day the better as there bonus will be bumped up. They won't want to be working on an old banger that is if they can find the special tools and know what they are doing with it in the first place.

I worked as a dealership tech for 8yrs and I have seen what goes on and have a few stories.

No apologies for being controversial.

Take it to a specialist.

Steve

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2005 at 14:19
Coasting-gotta disagree. When I set up my own business 6 months ago I advertised my M for sale thinking I might need the funds (luckily havent so far (touch wood)) but I had 1 buyer at the time and am getting tapped up by someone else privately for the car at above-book price.

Mine has 90% BMWsh and 10% BM inependant. I have all reports and schedules inc a far more comprehensive set from the indy.

No hesitation from either buyer.

I'd agree on a car like the E46 M3 or E39 M5 then I'd be looking hard at the SH but not on a collectors/older car than that.

John
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2005 at 14:05

The fact is that taking a car with FBMWSH, no matter how old, to somewhere that will stop it having FBMWSH will adversely affect its resale value (no matter where you take it).

As it stands, you have a very rare example.

When an independent has finished with it, it'll be no different from the others out there.

Honestly, I just wouldn't be thinking about it.  Why ruin FSH?

But, if you don't think it'll affect value, then why ask the question?

It's personal opinion but there is fact with it.  Regardless of age, Full Dealer History or Not Full Dealer History....it affects price.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2005 at 14:05
Like I said, I know too many dealer techies and have heard their stories. For an E46 with warranty I'd go dealer but never in a month of Sundays for anything older.

I'll try and keep this short and sweet but it gives you an idea. 2nd insp 2 by dealer on my 1995 3L M3. £750. Had car for 2 days.Half the work on the schedule not ticked off-asked why, told they forgot to tick the boxes, pushed up the heirachy for 3 days to be finally told they hadnt done the work not ticked so they needed the car for another day.

One of the items not ticked was new head gasket. They didnt have 1 in stock despite the car being booked in 3 weeks in advance. Worryingly they said they had done valves but then 2 days later said they hadnt cos the gasket needs replacing when they do these and as above they didnt have 1 in.

Took car in only to be told that 3 other things that needed doing couldnt be done as they hadnt ordered them in so car had to go back 1 week later for another day.

If I hadnt kicked up I'd never have known!

I took the car back to them 2 months later for MOT. Told that it had failed cos only 1 rear foglight was working. They spent 3 hrs trying to get it working despite my cries that its wired so only 1 works on pre96 models before they finally gave in and phoned an ex-employee of theirs who opened a BM independant garage and, according to the CS rep 'the last senior tech we had here who was trained on E36s', who told them it only had 1 foglight supposed to work.

Numptys.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2005 at 13:49

Coasting, i was surprised by your response, the car in question is my 1990 Sport Evo.

Do not really think that using an independant specialist will affect the value of a 15 year old car, especially when time comes to sell, it would be that specialist that i would get to sell the car, rather than a main dealer.

1990 M3 Sport Evo

1988 M3 Dog

2002 330d Sport Touring

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2005 at 08:09

FBMWSH and you're even thinking about taking it to a non-dealer?

Dealer.  Dealer.  Dealer.  If you take it elsewhere now you will without any doubt lessen resale or P/X value.

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-February-2005 at 06:09

Sorry J Dog, mine is black.......

Just spoken to local; BMW main dealer cost of inspection 1 £482, would need the car for 2 days as they need to work on it when engine cold!!!!! But i would get a nice new loan car for 2 days. Plus they wanted to charge 39.00 to refresh the AC.....

Subsquently spoke to well known specialist same would be £350..

No brainer really.

Craig

1990 M3 Sport Evo

1988 M3 Dog

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-February-2005 at 20:59
Sell the Sport evo to me. Let me worry about the servicing.  I am desperate to find a low miles full history model. Its got to be red though
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2005 at 16:05
Originally posted by Stone-IslandM3 Stone-IslandM3 wrote:

I'm not trying to slate dealers but value and saleability on a car will be affected by the owner showing how much care and attention to detail has gone into the car's care.

I personally would rather buy an E30/E36 M3 with servicing done by a good knowledgeable indy who's experienced with these cars such as Bexleys,Moseleys,ML etc than a dealer who is a jack of all trades be it BMW.

I'd go on the dealer too-how many dealers these days have techies working there who were trained on E30s? Most of em have young 'uns trained on E46s only.

I accept that FBMWSH still holds some sway but I would have thought anyone looking for a specialist car like this will appreciate and know the difference on servicing and attention to detail.


I totally agree with this post. Take your car into a dealer and it will most likely be serviced by someone who   wouldn't even realise that you were referring to a BMW if you mentioned your E30 M3 Sport Evo to them.

Take it to someone who knows the cars and their quirks/faults you'll get much better value for your money.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2005 at 15:31

By going to an independent (who knows these cars) surely over time you'll save considerably more money than going to a main dealer. That saving will more than offset the difference in value between a car with full main dealer SH and one with full independent SH.

That said if you can find a main dealer who knows these cars' peculiarities and who will give you service at a discount then you are doing well (I couldn't).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2005 at 14:35
I'm not trying to slate dealers but value and saleability on a car will be affected by the owner showing how much care and attention to detail has gone into the car's care.

I personally would rather buy an E30/E36 M3 with servicing done by a good knowledgeable indy who's experienced with these cars such as Bexleys,Moseleys,ML etc than a dealer who is a jack of all trades be it BMW.

I'd go on the dealer too-how many dealers these days have techies working there who were trained on E30s? Most of em have young 'uns trained on E46s only.

I accept that FBMWSH still holds some sway but I would have thought anyone looking for a specialist car like this will appreciate and know the difference on servicing and attention to detail.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2005 at 14:27

Craig

I would say that the FBMWSH is a definate positive to the value of the car. How would you view it if buying it in a few years time, low mileage and the history? (This is not to put the specialists down)

As for expertise Main Dealers - Bridgegate of Chester seem to specialise in M cars and offer discounts.

Richard

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2005 at 14:20
I cannot see any adverse effect on value as long as you use a good Mpower independant specialist
Gentlemen I may not have a brain but I do have an idea

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2005 at 14:10

If you have anything other than long term plans to keep it, the low mileage is getting relatively rare and this combined with an fsh has to have a positive impact on the future value of the car.

The only proviso is that you are happy that they still have the expertize to keep on top of the work it needs.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-February-2005 at 14:09
Personally I wouldnt let a dealer come within spitting distance of mine.
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