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MattB106 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: E30 M3 Vs Clio Williams... hmmmm
    Posted: 30-December-2004 at 15:56

Some guy on a cruise forum i go on claims he 'raced' a E30 M3 (presume non-Evo) from 90mph upwards on the motorway and was pulling away easily! Now all he has is a Williams with an exhaust, filter, manifold and no rear seats. Even by his slightly inflated figure of 170bhp i'm thinking pulling away easily didnt happen.

Sooo before i call him a silly boy, then look a tit, what are M3's like at this sort of speed?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 16:00
does it really matter?
Why do people not just accept it? It's a 16+ year old car. Just love it for what it is.
Or would you be surprised if an aged 100m athlete is having trouble keeping up with the youngsters?
E61 520d, slow and buzzy but my wallet likes the mpg.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 16:05
A '93 Clio is hardly a youngster! I think it does matter when the kids that go on these forums lap up rubbish (assuming it is). They get enough from Max Power as it is so it's nice to provide some 'balance'.

Edited by MattB106
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 16:18
I know what you mean. I am just getting tired to explain and to argue with the Max power alike. I just don't care anymore.
Just talk to them after a trackday......

Edited by UweM3
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 16:33
There wouldn't be a lot in it to be honest. My brothers old Saxo VTS had about 120 BHP and would give my M3 a run for its money in a straight line at lower speeds, but wouldn't beat it.

The E30 M3s rep comes from being a handling machine and a drivers car in the true sense.Plenty of modern cars will out drag it in a straight line race.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 16:34

A caterham R500 is faster than an F1 car at certain speeds, but its no F1 car.
An E30 M3 can beat a Z3 M coupe from 20 to 90mph (according to an article I read).
A clio is...a FWD clio - but fairly light and quick. An early E30 M3 with a cat especially is probably running round with not a lot more power than the clio.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 16:41

Cheers guys. I know what you mean though. I get fed up with it too. I jsut wanted to check this one out as i kept looking at figures for both in Evo and thinking he must be talked crap.

You don't even want to start with the track stuff. The guy seems to think he's god of Castle Combe too...

Oh, and out dragged an Audi S3 from 60 to 85 was another story!

 



Edited by MattB106
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 18:52

you have got to remember that these halfwits race anything the see on the road and have no tangible evidence that the other person was racing with them.

 

Hey, i beat a ferrari last night. He was parked though

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 19:18

exactly!!  sooooooooo many times chavs will pull alongside in their RS Turbo's etc. (and some are bl00dy quick too!) so you'll both pull off fairly rapid!  upto 30-40 say, then just pop it into 4th or 5th, the go rattling down the road with their 8 inch peco and that's their victory!!  they won, they beat an M3, M5, whatever it was i was in!!  b0ll0cks!!!!!!

(i'm starting to sound like my dad!! oh my god, i was once like them, when i was 17 in my 3 Nova SR's and 4 Cav SRi's, Astra 16V red tops and then i hit 20 and had 2 calibra's!!!!  oh how the tables turn!!)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-December-2004 at 19:19

I'm with Uwe on this one , I see my car as a classic that can be driven comfortably on a daily basis and has a good social scene , but when required and in the right hands (not mine) they can hold their own and often run rings round more modern cars .

I often get people show an intrest in my car only to spoil it by saying they know a car that beat one ! this normaly happens when I'm near a Halfrauds ! .

Another thing that makes me laugh is the look of dissapointment when you tell them its only a four cylinder !.

I've been driving these cars since the early 90's and in the right conditions you just cant beat them , but I think you have to live with it for a while to know its strengths .

Just my two pence worth .

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 02:12
Funny how weveryone knows a car that beats 'M3's'. I take that as a sign of respect
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 06:22
well driven clio williams -v- well driven e30 m3 on track - too close to call....

...agree that this max power mentality is all a bit meaningless but let's not fool ourselves and be as bad as they are...

...not that it matters anyway....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 06:44

It doesn't matter which is faster...what would you rather drive - a suped up renault clio or a BMW M3 ?

Both cars are very capable...but also very different.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 06:47
Originally posted by jamesrose jamesrose wrote:

It doesn't matter which is faster...what would you rather drive - a suped up renault clio or a BMW M3 ?


Both cars are very capable...but also very different.



and to make things even worse Williams had NO input at all when the Clio Williams was developed!
But I like the fact that everyone wants to beat the M3.
As MattB said, a sign of respect (and a little bit of fear )

Edited by UweM3
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 07:11
Must admit,I gave into the dark side and had a blast with one on the way back from getting my car mapped,a couple of years ago,when it was standard.
It was in the lanes around Kent,very close.Later found out that his had been breathed on,when he pulled up along side and said how impressed he was with my car.Totally blanked him,because he was driving a pile of French crap must admit I was supprised at the way it went!
Show me one that`s over twelve years old,and can still hold it`s own,and I might change my opinion.

Jon
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 07:18
Park both up together, and which one would get more interest?

When I see a nice E30 M3 parked up, I have to have a look. Can't say I've ever seen a Williams whatever it was, maybe I have but haven't paid it any notice.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 07:23

Originally posted by Darren M Darren M wrote:

An E30 M3 can beat a Z3 M coupe from 20 to 90mph (according to an article I read).

er.. I don't think so.  Depends on gearing. A healthy/sorted MCoupe can hit 100 from standstill in about 10-11 secs (traction permitting) which would match an E30M3 from 20mph. I'd say article was complete nonsense. On track of course the E30M3 can make a ZMC very honest unless there are any long straights.

My Zm was absolutely slaughtering 230bhp Exiges out of Taylor's hairpin at KH (which is a second gear 20-30mph tight right hander up a pit straight to about 115-120mph).. and I mean slaughtered. John's tuned ZMC (Zoom Motorsport) was giving lambos headaches at Bruntingthrope.

As far Clios wupping E30's.. don't put too much on what young boys say they have beaten.. it takes 2 to have a race. What glory was there for any M3 driver to race a Renault.. nuff said. A Clio wont get close to a well driven/sorted E30M3. But beign fwd it's an easier car to drive to its limits.. so a lot depends on driver.

You do hear stuff.. mainly because few M owners race sheds.. I used to keep going into a local specialist (MMV - Stirling) and kept being told how a m8 of his in his tuned Nova beat a ZM Roadster (in a straight line). Simply to say that the guy tunes mostly Vauxhalls and I no longer frequent the establishment as it was clear that the guy was clearly delusional.  Funny that these vauxhalls don't appear at the drag strip.. I just smile and put in 13 deads a;; day long. 12s will always be a struggle becausde of poor 60fts (traction) but I hope Racelogic will help there.

I followed an old Mk2. RS1800 along a back lane.. the guy clearly knew the road and was giving it everything.. mostly sideways and pulled clean air ahead of the M. Of course I didn't come out of third gear once and the dual mass fly can show a little reluctance below 3000rpm whereas I could hear multiple redline gear changes going in the Escort and the wee Ford was smoking.. Of course he'll know spread on the forums how he beat a ZM Roadster.. ahh bless.

I look out for things worth 'following' and of course that runs the risk of being beaten but I'd rather lose fair and square than wup dross or worse still lose because I missed a gear change. wot's the pt of placing the stress on the car to beat sheds..?

Keep the racing for the race track and you wont see many Clios in your mirrors.

Best 2 all.

 



Edited by M BLUR
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 07:44
Originally posted by M BLUR M BLUR wrote:

Originally posted by Darren M Darren M wrote:

An E30 M3 can beat a Z3 M coupe from 20 to 90mph (according to an article I read).

er.. I don't think so.  Depends on gearing. A healthy/sorted MCoupe can hit 100 from standstill in about 10-11 secs (traction permitting) which would match an E30M3 from 20mph. Despite weight penalty over the E30 the ZMC is putting out approx 100bhp/100lbft torque (with better induction) more then a std 190bhp E30M3. Moreoever the Zm puts out it's peak torque at 3000-3500 revs. This is why the ZM can do well against a 385bhp F355 in a straight line or 340-60bhp 993RS or 996GT3. My Zm puts down 274lbft torque (277 with unichip) at 3500rpm compared to an F355 that hits 275lbft at 5800rpm. So - I'd say article was complete nonsense. On track of course this all means very little & a healthy E30M3 can make a ZMC very honest unless there are some long straights for it to get away on.. otherwise it's ZM dinner for the E30 unless Zm very sorted and driver very brave.

My Zm was absolutely slaughtering 230bhp Exiges out of Taylor's hairpin at KH (which is a second gear 20-30mph tight right hander up a pit straight to about 115-120mph).. and I mean slaughtered. John's tuned ZMC (Zoom Motorsport) was giving lambos headaches at Bruntingthrope.

As far Clios wupping E30's.. don't put too much on what young boys say they have beaten.. it takes 2 to have a race. What glory was there for any M3 driver to race a Renault.. nuff said. A Clio wont get close to a well driven/sorted E30M3. But beign fwd it's an easier car to drive to its limits.. so a lot depends on driver.

You do hear stuff.. mainly because few M owners race sheds.. I used to keep going into a local specialist (MMV - Stirling) and kept being told how a m8 of his in his tuned Nova beat a ZM Roadster (in a straight line). Simply to say that the guy tunes mostly Vauxhalls and I no longer frequent the establishment as it was clear that the guy was clearly delusional.  Funny that these vauxhalls don't appear at the drag strip.. I just smile and put in 13 deads a;; day long. 12s will always be a struggle becausde of poor 60fts (traction) but I hope Racelogic will help there.

I followed an old Mk2. RS1800 along a back lane.. the guy clearly knew the road and was giving it everything.. mostly sideways and pulled clean air ahead of the M. Of course I didn't come out of third gear once and the dual mass fly can show a little reluctance below 3000rpm whereas I could hear multiple redline gear changes going in the Escort and the wee Ford was smoking.. Of course he'll know spread on the forums how he beat a ZM Roadster.. ahh bless.

I look out for things worth 'following' and of course that runs the risk of being beaten but I'd rather lose fair and square than wup dross or worse still lose because I missed a gear change. wot's the pt of placing the stress on the car to beat sheds..?

Keep the racing for the race track and you wont see many Clios in your mirrors.

Best 2 all.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 14:16
Lost out to a Golf TDI who was going for it today, but then again I was slowing down because of the queue at the roundabout and was going to Sainsbury's.

It's my birthday today

Wonkydog is 41, but still buys Max Power, anyone like the silver M3 on the cover?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-December-2004 at 14:18
Happy new year everyone.



Is it just me or is broadband slowband tonight?

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