WHICH OIL FOR E39 M5?? |
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harvard468
Groupie Joined: 05-August-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Topic: WHICH OIL FOR E39 M5?? Posted: 11-October-2004 at 05:47 |
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I am interested in which oil Forum members with E39 M5's use - particularly cars built after February 2000. I know that before that date the recommended oil was Castrol TWS 10w-60. Also oil consumption - how many litres per mile??? It seems these cars tend to use a fair bit of oil. Apologies to anyone who has already posted on the topic, but I am trying to pull the info together. I should like to set it up as a poll but don't know how to!!!! Regards STEPHEN B |
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Stephen B
1990 Z1 1994 E34 540i Touring 1999 E38 740i (Had to go) 2001 E39 M5 |
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coupesport
Newbie Joined: 29-September-2004 Location: Bury st Edmunds Status: Offline Points: 14 |
Posted: 11-October-2004 at 17:24 | |
Stephen the help sections say:
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harvard468
Groupie Joined: 05-August-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Posted: 11-October-2004 at 18:18 | |
coupesport, I don't think I have enough rights yet!! Even when logged it says I cannot create polls at the bottom RHS of the page. Thanks anyway SB |
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Stephen B
1990 Z1 1994 E34 540i Touring 1999 E38 740i (Had to go) 2001 E39 M5 |
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andygriff
Groupie Joined: 27-October-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 18-October-2004 at 12:46 | |
It is VERY important that you use the correct oil in the E39 M5 engine (S62 B50). This is due to changes made to the cylinder wall material from around Feb 02. If your car was built around this point I would recommend using the engine number to determin which oil to use. Upto Feb 2000 use either Castrol TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 or Veedol Synthetic Z SAE 10W-60 which is also recommended by BMW. After Feb 2000 you have a greater choice of oils availible to you, I would recommend Castrol SLX LL01 SAE 0W-30 having been using it without a problem since the introduction of the modified engine. Hope this helps. Andy (BMW Tech)
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1988 E30 M3 S14B23
1995 E36 M3 S50B30 Saloon Honda RC30 BMW Senior Technician. |
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B 7 VP
Really Senior Member II Joined: 04-November-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1115 |
Posted: 18-October-2004 at 13:36 | |
Andy, its interesting to see the advised Oils for later Engines, But--Dealers Quote the TWS chapter & Verse--for many Engines--one Oil fits All. WE know of Problems with some S54 Engines, Worldwide--and most prospective purchasers of Say V10 engines, do, NOT wish to Rebuild , ALA "Race Teams" every 10 Hours of running .While 3 year Warranties look good, what price the Extended warranty ?????? after this time.
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SAFETYFAST
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m3kuk
Really Senior Member I Joined: 19-November-2002 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 267 |
Posted: 18-October-2004 at 14:08 | |
Andy,what oil do they rec. for '96 M3 Evo mate?
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andygriff
Groupie Joined: 27-October-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 76 |
Posted: 19-October-2004 at 05:19 | |
There are many acceptable oils for this engine, again I use the Castrol SLX 0w-30 in these and have never seen wear or failiure using this oil. Andy
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1988 E30 M3 S14B23
1995 E36 M3 S50B30 Saloon Honda RC30 BMW Senior Technician. |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 20-October-2004 at 05:22 | |
Just ensure that the oil used is BMW LL01 Approved. If you have problems sourcing it, I have four different ones. You can always email me. Cheers Simon http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
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SFH3L
Really Senior Member I Joined: 03-October-2004 Location: Near Buckingham Status: Offline Points: 447 |
Posted: 22-October-2004 at 16:34 | |
Chaps, I don't want to sound like a thick person here, but would value your collective wisdom, given the tone of replies on the E39 oil question. I have an E30 Sport Evo M3, and have tried a number of oils. I started with Mobil 1 (I think I used 0W40 and 5W50 grades) till I heard everyone saying that was a bad idea. I had run it for 90,000 miles (changed every 6,000) in my Honday CRX when Mobil 1 first came out, and that car was as good when I got rid of it as when I got it. Then I tried ordinary Castrol GTX (I think 10W40) Magnatec for one service interval. I now use Castrol Formula RS (10W60), and reckon it's pretty good. Between services, my cars tended to use about half of the range between the marks on the dipstick with all of the "other" oils I tried, and using the RS seems to have halved that. Like I say, hearing your experiences would be interesting. Good weekends all round.
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Sam.
the original "not for profit" organisation. Independent Financial Adviser In Buckingham My Financial Blog |
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harvard468
Groupie Joined: 05-August-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Posted: 23-October-2004 at 12:43 | |
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Stephen B
1990 Z1 1994 E34 540i Touring 1999 E38 740i (Had to go) 2001 E39 M5 |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 23-October-2004 at 18:15 | |
Totally agree 100% and it's what I have been saying all along. You can in fact use any 0w-30, 0w-40, 5w-30 or 5w-40 that is approved by BMW to the specific LL01 specification. Cheers Simon
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harvard468
Groupie Joined: 05-August-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Posted: 24-October-2004 at 00:50 | |
Thanks for the confirmation Andy and Simon. If any of you get BMW Car Magazine you will see in November's issue a letter from me on page 38, which I sent over 2 months ago, before discussing on the Forum or contacting Oilman. You will note that the Mag contacted a main dealer and a specialist, both of whom advise (wrongly!!) TWS 10w-60. I guess the message is still not getting through! One last question, probably for Andy, - I thought my 2001 M5 had hydraulic tappets; I am surprised to find they are (what I thought obsolete!) "bucket and shim"! Is this really right?? Regards STEPHEN B Edited by harvard468 |
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Stephen B
1990 Z1 1994 E34 540i Touring 1999 E38 740i (Had to go) 2001 E39 M5 |
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dbrook007
Newbie Joined: 26-October-2004 Location: York, England. Status: Offline Points: 1 |
Posted: 26-October-2004 at 14:07 | |
Regarding this: -
I'm not totally clear here - I need to top up the oil on my 2001 E39 M5 - which oil should I use? Thanks - Darren (darrenbrook@btconnect.com) |
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harvard468
Groupie Joined: 05-August-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Posted: 26-October-2004 at 16:14 | |
Darren, Your M5 should have been filled with Fully Synthetic LL-01 0w-30 (e.g. Castrol SLX) at its last service if done by a main dealer. Therefore you should top up with the same. Your service invoice should itemise the materials and the oil used. If not it's probably worth checking what was used and topping up with the same. However if your main dealer used TWS 10w-60 which is not an LL-01 BMW approved oil, he was wrong. He should reread the BMW Technical bulletins. I hope the Oilman reads these posts, because he is the expert - I am only passing on what I have learned by many hours of research! Regards STEPHEN B |
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Stephen B
1990 Z1 1994 E34 540i Touring 1999 E38 740i (Had to go) 2001 E39 M5 |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 26-October-2004 at 18:02 | |
I'm watching and would point out that Castrol is not obligatory just because it's the only oil the Dealers sell and have available. I sell it too but recommend the Fuchs as it's better value and factory fill! I in fact have 4 oils that meet the correct spec Cheers Simon |
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Timray
Groupie Joined: 12-December-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 60 |
Posted: 26-October-2004 at 19:49 | |
Slightly off topic, I know - but I'm tempted by an E39 M5. Should I avoid
those with the early engines? (Pre-Feb 2000? Or is it pre-Feb 02? I see both dates in Andy's post.) |
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harvard468
Groupie Joined: 05-August-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Posted: 27-October-2004 at 07:17 | |
Timray, The engine modifications were in March 2000 and later S62 engines fitted to the E39 M5. I think Andygriff's reference to Feb 02 was a typo. I think he meant Feb 00 as later in the post. I would go for as late an M5 as possible as there is a greater chance that the dealers may have used the correct oil (i.e., not 10w-60) at the services or indeed that the engine hasn't come up to an oil change (15,000 miles or so) yet!!! Whilst writing you may have noticed a letter in November's BMW Car Magazine from an American who has recently bought one of the last E39 M5s new and intends to keep it for along time. he therefore is changing the oil every 3,000 miles and using 10w-60!!! I will let Oilman explain why his engine might not last as long as he hopes!! Regards STEPHEN B Edited by harvard468 |
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Stephen B
1990 Z1 1994 E34 540i Touring 1999 E38 740i (Had to go) 2001 E39 M5 |
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Timray
Groupie Joined: 12-December-2003 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 60 |
Posted: 27-October-2004 at 07:26 | |
I did indeed - November BMW Car magazine.
Is there a VIN code or engine number code that would allow me to identify a post-March 2000 engine? Thanks, Stephen, for letting me stray a little off topic... |
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harvard468
Groupie Joined: 05-August-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Posted: 27-October-2004 at 07:31 | |
Timray, Better leave this one for the experts - I'm getting out of my depth!! Regards STEPHEN |
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Stephen B
1990 Z1 1994 E34 540i Touring 1999 E38 740i (Had to go) 2001 E39 M5 |
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oilman
Bavarian-Board Forum Sponsor Joined: 28-June-2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1053 |
Posted: 27-October-2004 at 08:53 | |
Ok, here's a quick description of what happens if an oil is not suitable for the engine. Surely the thicker the oil the better! This isn't always true - even when using a petroleum oil.
Although it is true that heavier viscosity oils (which are generally thought of as being thicker) will hold up better under heavy loads and high temperatures, this doesn't necessarily make them a better choice for all applications. On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.
In the winter months it is highly recommended that you not use a heavier grade oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer. In cold start conditions you could very well be causing more engine wear than when using a lighter viscosity oil.
In the summer months, going to a heavier grade is less of an issue, but there are still some things to be aware of. Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine.
More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.
In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly.
As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.
The best advice is to is to stay away from viscosity grades that are not mentioned in your owner's manual. Cheers, Simon |
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